Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
I think that we can keep in touch.
Today's topic is about something I really care about so much about the community.
I will try to tell it as my personal perspective, the story and tell it to your very personal friends.
There are some terms that you can use to talk about it.
The role involved in an open source project.
The role is also working in community with some community work.
Contributors, maintainers, any kind of thing.
Some people are doing more coding and some are working in other roles.
It's also very important to support the community.
Other non-coasters are also very important.
I also love open source.
As you can see, I get involved in the open source project.
I also get involved in the foundation that is supporting Python, the language itself and the community.
I love the community so much.
I work in the open as a community manager.
We have a birth and we are in K-level too.
We are also there tomorrow.
Come talk to us.
We have other projects.
I will skip this because you can talk to me at the first.
Why open source is different?
I know that a lot of us are open source but I don't know who is here.
Maybe it's a bit like don't need me to explain it to you.
Just for the record, for a first one, I may get a little bit new to open source.
Why open source is so different from maybe in your previous job,
maybe you work in a closed source project, why is governance so different?
Maybe you have already get a sense of it but let me explain.
I made a comparison here because I really like comparing things.
I was data scientist and I like analyzing things.
Let's do a comparison of open source and Python software.
How is the governance different?
Open source, sometimes we don't have a clear owner.
A lot of projects start out with one person.
That person will probably think they are the owner but what if they are like,
I want to retire, I don't want to do this open source project anymore.
I'm a bit tired, so I give it to someone else.
Who actually owns the project?
Sometimes people are not clear.
For example, if you have windows on your operation system,
we know that the windows are developed by open source.
We know that Microsoft owns windows, so that's more clear about who owns the project.
Also, open source, there's a lot of volunteers involved.
What you do is very different from working with staff and engineers, your colleagues.
Staff and colleagues, they have to have responsibility.
They do that, they have to do their job, right?
But volunteers, volunteers, volunteer in their time,
you can't really tell them that much tomorrow.
You don't want to be pushing the volunteer like that.
Another thing, if you work in a company that's very clear,
you will probably have a manager or a manager who has another manager.
There's a corporate hierarchy there, so maybe the CCO is the problem.
For the manager, you have a team, and then you have a lead,
you have more senior role, junior role, it's very clear in your hierarchy.
But for open source, sometimes you get a sense of someone a more senior.
They have not really your boss, right?
They made someone who has contributed maybe a year or two years before you.
So they know a little better about the project,
so it doesn't feel like you're involving someone.
They may be someone who is a maintainer, they may have more access to the project
than you, but still, it's not a very clear hierarchy.
Nobody is any of these folks.
On the last thing, it says, open source, they are contributors.
If they don't have lots of them, they don't have a lot of convenience.
They don't sign an employment contract.
They have to work five days a week and then eight hours a day.
They don't sign an employment contract.
They don't have to, you know, if they have something, you know, they've got busy with their work,
you know, having some personal thing, they may actually contribute the best when they're done.
You can't expect them to contribute in a constant kind of pace that, you know,
always the same contribution all the time.
But if you work in a company, of course, like, you know, someone has already signed an employment contract,
they have committed their time, that's the responsibility.
If they want to take time off, they have to apply,
and then they have to pay an HR, they have to know who is having a holiday.
So that is very different working in open source,
especially open source that is like involving volunteer work.
It's very different when you have a company and have staff working in it.
So the last thing I would say that makes it super different is that, you know,
proprietary software, it's owned by a company,
product is supposed to make money for a company,
because that's how a company provides, that's why they make this product,
because, you know, they have to, as a company, they have to make profit, they have to thrive.
But for open source projects, sometimes, you know, someone started a project,
they just won't want people to use it, that's all they want, they don't even like,
they're not selling it, they're not even making money, you know,
they just someone started a project and then it becomes big,
and it becomes something that everyone uses.
That we would say is a successful project,
but there's no like, monetary gain for one of the people who started it.
So, now that we know that we are thinking about open source,
we think about like, we put that like, kind of company,
hierarchy, you know, corporate, and target,
I would think about it within the community.
So who's going to be in charge, right?
Who's going to get the top?
So there's something that we call, um, bureaucracy.
So what is that?
I'm not very good, English is not my first language, so I look it up.
So you can't say, oh, whoever, it's basically what it means,
whoever it has, it's the most knowledgeable, whoever do it, do it,
they have a say.
So, um, for example, if someone like, oh, I've done it for like 10 years,
I know how it works, so that's why I'm able to have them listen,
because like, you know, they are the most knowledgeable person in the group.
But they've got to have this, every time they listen,
they actually trust that person, so that's why they become the leader.
We get out, who knows what a get out is.
So we get out, but they're not going to take that alive.
Listen, when a person knows about that character, it's oxymoron.
Right?
So they're not going to take that.
So, there's only a small number of people, they are qualified CDFLs,
well, there's actually no qualification of people,
kind of, give them title, there's an honorable title that people give up to them.
So, any of them?
Well, I mean, not passionately, but I do, you can think of some, some of them.
What?
You know, I know that you have high-level people.
I thought that you were...
Linus?
Yes, oh, wow!
Yeah, hey!
Yeah, it's not benevolent, yeah.
We have already, like, you know, we agree on some people, right,
they have, you know, there's no, like, a good tip,
you know, people really appreciate the contribution of the sauce.
Oh, yeah.
Just a little?
Oh, no.
Okay, you know that for a while, the show must go on, so...
So, you know, I still see a lot of people, like, in the community,
having a community, they're like,
oh, I'm a little bit of a friend, boy or friend, girl,
you know, they're like, you know, they're like, you know...
Inspired by the BDF arrows, because, you know,
they have made really good contributions to the community
and their contribution is fundamental, that's why.
But, now I give you a challenge, like, you know, million-dollar question.
Can you name some of the BDF arrows that are, you know, maybe they're women
or they are people of color?
Any?
BDF arrows?
Ten million dollars.
I don't know, ten million dollars.
Yeah, it's hard, right?
There isn't many of them.
The BDF arrows that I asked you before, that you can think of,
most of them are white-nosed.
So, it's not very diverse in that sense.
So, that's a good thing about Marapposite,
that, you know, we trust these people because, you know, they're good at it, right?
So, we trust them, we trust that they can, you know,
they can bring the community together to, you know,
to lead the community, they have the knowledge.
And it seems like everybody can be BDF arrows, right?
Technically.
So, if you're good enough, you will be BDF arrows.
So, anybody can be BDF arrows.
That's good.
But, there's a catch, because,
do everybody get the same chance to get the knowledge?
Because, if you compare, right, if you compare someone,
maybe they, you know, they were encouraged to learn programming language when they were young.
And now these kids start programming very, very young.
So, they are like, you know, compared to me, who is like,
maybe I start programming, you know,
who knows what they're over there.
So, maybe when you do this, you know,
but now it's like kids are already making games,
and they're like, that was like, what?
So, not everybody is given the same resources.
So, everybody are like, you know,
have the same opportunity to start this journey early,
or maybe they have distracted in their life to do other things,
so they don't pursue to be like a very good software engineer.
So, it's very hard for someone who is, you know,
who is like that to achieve the same high level.
So, let's make a very good example here.
This is my friend, Malin.
So, maybe if you're Python people, you also know Malin.
She's very famous in the Python community.
She is from Zimbabwe.
She's previous as a director and vice chair of the PSF.
And she founded a symbol pie,
she's the nonprofit for Zimbabwe women in Texas.
Yay, she's a profit diversity in Zimbabwe.
That's amazing, right?
I really adore her.
So, when she gave a keynote in Hyde of Italy in 2003,
so it was an amazing keynote.
I think that is really pulling the handle, but what brought me to this story
is that when she did the keynote A, there was someone,
actually I think from the accent, I just guessed,
I'm making an assumption here,
there are like a ton of developers and he asked,
I don't see why we are different.
You know what I mean?
Like him and Malin, like he said that you will see a difference.
You know, why do we need to make effort in diversity and inclusion?
So, Malin gave a very, very good answer.
She kind of, tell her story,
she didn't start co-coming very young.
She was doing some science subject until in her twenties
that she started co-coming because of the field,
the major science degree.
So compared to someone who maybe, you know,
imagine you are a kind of a male,
a female developer in Europe, maybe around our age,
maybe you start playing video games when you are very young
and you start learning that, oh, actually you can't buy some code,
you can do some fun stuff, so you are not,
not everybody is given the same resources.
Not everybody's journey is the same, so that's the difference.
Especially now, if you look at the research still, you know,
those are like women, they can't really spend the same time
in the talk, you know, in clothing as many
because they are soon to have more responsibility
to interfere with kids and console shots.
So, yeah, that's what I discovered after, you know,
I'm seeing all these stories that we are not
on the same level playing field.
It's not everyone's ability, sometimes, you know,
if you like, let's say imagine there's a girl in some update,
you've heard of Trinity to learn coding,
maybe she was also, she was also a bridge,
maybe she would be from the PDFL, but it's about, you know,
the environment, maybe someone who doesn't know
if they can compute at home, it's more hard for them to be,
you know, passionate and maybe to cope at a young age.
Also, social expectations, like I said, still,
women and now, still, lots of cultures expect them to be,
like, maybe like care giver for family members, for kids,
but then it would be like less time to develop,
like, especially in open source, a lot of times you will,
you know, work on open source in your spare time,
so if you have to take care of your family, it's very hard.
Also, access to resources, you know,
I give an example now, these kids have more, you know,
their internet is easier for them to get resources,
but imagine if like, you talk about someone who maybe
grew up in like the 80s, right, not everybody can do that,
home for the 80s, so people, you know,
so if they grow up in that time, they don't have access
so maybe for them, you know, computer and programming is a new thing,
so not everybody is safe.
So, I'm making money off of time, I'm full of rush.
So, we don't have the same opportunity.
So, if you're not bureaucracy, what else?
There's a new thing called bureaucracy, which I learned,
so what is bureaucracy?
Very simple to put it is that, you know,
whoever got the time to do it and put out their hands,
we don't check if they have the qualification or not,
just like, we trust them, just do it,
basically what it is.
And one of the problems, you know, open source, I like this,
you know, you don't have to have a certificate, right,
and everybody can contribute to open source,
we just like, well, of course, we won't,
we won't question P out that easily, we will double check
and have peer review, but, you know,
we all stop you, like, you don't have to have a computer
science degree to start, like, you know, looking at the PR
and start really, you know, doing something that maybe
gives them a list of contributions.
Everybody's given a chance, there's no case keeping it,
again, like, we are not meeting a CV until you can start,
you know, the caretaker requests, right?
So, but it's true, if we think about it, right,
open source is new, I can see, kind of,
because I just made some examples there,
it's like, there's always work to do in open source,
like, you know, nobody's got to tell you,
like, you don't have anything that says you
for offering your help, we don't need you to help,
like, I think that's very rare in here.
So, anyone can start their own project,
if for example, if you feel that you don't want
to conflict with others' project, you can actually,
like, you know, clone it and start your own project
if you want, that's the best case you can take,
and again, like, we are not going to meet your CV
and hire you and make you sign an open contract.
So, it's open source, open to women,
so that's the thing that I want to bring up
with the story that I'm going to tell you.
So, this is the career, we are still having a challenge
because in, like, you know, you know,
game of users, just 5.4% of them are over,
so this is actually a statistic done in this book,
you can actually, you have the link,
if you click on it and see that it's still very small
and I'm going to contribute to open source,
if you look at the statistic research done in this book,
and also the problem is that in tech industry,
like women, a lot of them actually,
they latch in their mid-career, so the more you see,
the more senior you go, the less women you'll see
in the company, so since I'm doing like this,
why? Really worrying, so an example I want to give is,
so, again, like, everybody can contribute to open source,
you see Python is open source, you can contribute,
but Python Core developer, we are looking at
the Python Core developers, right,
these are the developers who have committed rights,
so these are the leaders, they are like,
see more senior level in some sense in C Python,
eight women in a team, do you know how many
Core developers in C Python?
This is a very difficult question,
because I don't know why I have to ask someone,
it's 87% of the total, and actually once,
these are the actual, you know,
I think there's 100 and something,
people who still have the commit right,
you know, if you look at age, out of 87%,
it's less than 10% of,
there isn't a lot of women Core developers in Python,
but why, right? Again, like,
what was supposed to be the last thing,
everybody was supposed to have the same chance
to contribute, but why going to technical leadership,
right, go to more like senior level,
there is a few women, and it's the pressure
that I ask myself in the community,
I was trying to say, why is so little,
isn't there a lot of female core depth there,
I want to be a spy, female core depth,
but I'm fine with it, so what is lacking here, right?
So Marietta is also my friend,
and I'm telling you a lot of story about my friend,
Marietta, she is the first female core depth,
and you know, I admire her, she is really inspiring,
you know, she's also not just, you know,
for technical stuff, she also helps with all of
I think Python US for two years, including this year,
you know, very senior in tech, so very rare,
if you look at the statistics, so I ask her why,
there isn't much of, like, female core depth,
and that's something that she answered for me,
is that, so by the way, she is a mom,
so she has a kid, so, it's like, why doesn't it fit,
like, it's very hard, so they work,
are you really hard in their work,
because there's already some bias in their jobs,
so they have to spend extra time sometimes at work,
and it's like, you know, again, like,
open source is sometimes like, you have to do,
like, spend your spare time doing,
so for someone who is like, for example,
like, when you're a mom, you have kids, it's very hard,
especially when you expect it to be
the major caregiver in the family,
and another problem that big companies
doesn't allow their employees to spend their work hours
to contribute to open source, so there's, again,
less opportunity for people, especially women,
to contribute to open source.
Another thing, I actually talked with someone
from the Rust community yesterday,
that microaggression is a thing, right,
not just items like, you know, Rust and maybe other
more other communities, it's like, we have code of conduct,
it's kind of, you know, everybody understands,
and it's not like, but there's something for microaggression,
that is, you know, something that really
you can't make end-force, and it's still not a very nice thing,
it's not very welcoming, and we don't want that,
but it still exists.
So, yeah, so what went wrong?
Well, I don't have to explain this,
you have all of the, like, when you make a policy there,
you know, some conference, they have some big female speakers,
very messy, so what's the problem?
Because, I think a lot of, you know, some organizations,
they still don't understand, like, they think that diversity
inclusion is just a slogan, they have to do it
because they don't want to be cancelled,
they need to look good on the numbers,
and I talked with some organizers, they said,
oh, I'm women, I have the same merit as men.
Well, I mean, I know a lot of amazing female developers,
I've just already shown you two examples,
but, you know, but nobody asked me,
like, how to contact them, so.
Like, I kind of, like, like this picture, right,
I was like, well, I can speak Chinese,
so there's like a story, old Chinese story,
saying like, I think it's trying to steal a bell,
but like, oh, but touch it, and everybody will know,
so it's probably scary, assuming everybody's happy
and it's probably scary, they're selling,
but that's basically what happened here.
What can we do?
Professor, all we have to acknowledge the problem,
we have to say yes, the problem exists, we have to fix it.
Understand the problem, to not just look at things
just like numbers, we have to treat people like people
to understand why, like, these underrepresented folks,
they don't feel comfortable, or,
so that you have to talk to them, right,
you have to talk to them, say, how we can help them,
what do you need, how we can make it nice over you.
You have to put effort in it, and you have to do it all the time,
you can't just do it like once, and things are done,
no, it's never going to be done, and it's in the foreseeable future.
So as a community member, support that,
if someone, you know, is an organization or some leadership,
they're trying to put effort in it, trying to support them,
if they're on a big round of a process,
like you did well, I really love your conference,
that kind of thing, so I call it, the Procraste.
The Procraste, and the other two words, I'll just put it there.
So we have the extra effort to support underrepresented folks,
to be successful, so that's our management program,
it's very important, I'm going to show you an example later,
but this is all the things that we can do in the community
to support underrepresented folks,
and it's, you know, I don't want to point out all of them at the time,
but you know, this is the thing, a lot of organization and community is doing,
keep doing it, keep doing it, but you know, we can do, you know, we can do more.
For example, again, this woman, I also adore her, she's from Wana,
she's, I met her at the Papua, so she's living in India,
so she was an outreach team, so coming up, you know, outreach team project?
Yay! So outreach team project, they are paying for underrepresented folks
to do internship at the Procraste project,
so she used to work as an intern for outreach team at home,
now she moved on, she started a new career,
I mean still in tech career, but started new role,
but she's still contributing to the PGA effort.
She said that like, you can actually find her talk on the Python India YouTube,
so you can look at it, and she said that like,
outreach team program helped her to restart her career,
because you know, I don't have time to tell her a whole story,
but so thanks to outreach team program, she's now still a software engineer,
I've done it in kids, so I want to take home,
not everybody have the same access to resources,
we have to accept the problem that we still have, you know,
bias in the community, it's not like, we are not diverse and welcoming enough,
you know, pay development open source,
not just the maintainers, not just like, you know,
like outreach program, they also like pay interns to try to get more new people
to come into contribute to open source,
you know, educate people with less access,
you know, sometimes like free courses, free resources are good,
emphasize the success, show these amazing women,
like, I don't want to hear that I can't find female speaker anymore,
I want to like tell people, there are lots of amazing female developers,
female community members out there, reach out to them,
provide safe environment, if you want them to join your community,
to be present at your event,
make sure that it's safe and welcoming for them.
So the last thing, we will have to see our democracy,
no, I say like try support democracy,
like try something that, you know, is better, I think, too.
So, thank you very much, I'm running out of time, so...
applause