Welcome.
Okay, so hello everyone.
Just a very quick introduction.
My name is Lina Cevajos.
I work with Policy at the Free Software Foundation Europe.
And yeah, I just want to make a little bit introduction about this session.
If you have been here before, you have seen that we're trying to try different formats, doing workshops, fish bowls.
And this format, we kind of like imagine it more as a discussion, kind of like what we have had.
So you don't need to move, you just need to raise your hand.
I will bring the microphone to you.
And I also wanted this to be, you know, not like a technically like a Q&A, but more like less chat and let's try to find common ground.
Yeah, so about the topic.
So this is a, the session is on digital public services and interoperability.
There will be a session more focused on, like that is not the digital public services later on.
And because we're talking about this, we're going to have two parts.
One is a focus on the Interoperable Europe Act to serve as an example of what's happening at this moment when it comes to digital public services.
And this is an act that, you know, happened last year.
And I personally have to say that I had the feeling that it was a little bit under looped.
So not so many people pay attention to this.
And I think it is a very crucial piece of regulation because we're talking about interoperability in digital public services.
So to start the discussion or to start this, let's talk about what is interoperability.
So like the definition, you know, is like the ability of information systems to speak with one another.
And now we want to make use of this feature to deliver public services or to make public administrations to deliver public services.
And this can have so many examples in practice.
One that I can always like to give is that imagine you're going on a road trip from here to Paris and then you go with your car and then you want to park on the street and then you get to this machine
and then you want to put the car plate off your car and then it turns out it doesn't recognize your plate because it's from Belgium and then you just end up having a park in another country that you cannot park.
So is this, you know, like we're talking about things that affect us all in the EU.
I mean, it has to do with freedom of movement, but also with education, with health.
There are so many aspects that are so important when we're talking about interoperability and digital public services.
And of course, for these to work, we're talking about critical infrastructure.
And this is where free software plays a huge role.
And that is the reason why we were trying to be active last year and still trying to be active to make decision makers understand the role that these, the free software and open standards come or have in this regulation.
I also have to say that, I mean, the commission proposal already acknowledged this.
The commission proposal already came with some of these wording.
And there were different things that we were trying to get active.
So I guess we're going to learn more from this, from Issa, from Calvin, from the commission.
But there is like a very interesting inclusion of a governance structure.
So we will learn more about it and we were trying to push to be there because that's where, you know, the decisions are going to be made.
And so on.
And of course, I don't even know what I had this slide, but anyway.
And then the second part, then we're going to focus on the European Commission efforts that are happening when it comes to the direction of free software.
And for this, then we're going to have a decision with Hays and with his colleague also from the OSPO, from the European Commission OSPO.
We're going to discuss all these efforts because there have been some of this coming from like years back, but just bring an example.
The open source strategy after that decision that came with it, the code repository that another European Commission is having.
So we're going to learn what has been done.
But what I want us to keep in mind, and I think along the day I've been seeing and I think it has been a very fruitful discussion on how we can get engaged.
And how we can interact with decision makers.
But it is also important that we keep an eye on implementation because of course it is important to advocate for free software when it is possible with decision makers.
But once the text is done, such as the interoperable Europe Act, we had the opportunity, we did what we could.
We would discuss this during the session.
Now we have this piece of regulation that we need to make sure that it is implemented.
And let's make use of these words that we struggle and we fight so much to put in there.
And let's help them as well to figure out how to implement this.
So let's look at the future.
Let's look at examples.
Let's see what has worked well, what hasn't worked well.
And let's try to find ways where we can all collaborate and we can make use of all these efforts that are happening at the moment.
So, yeah, and I also want, yeah, again, like the structure.
So we're going to have this presentation and of course we're going to open the floor for questions, comments and so on.
Remember that you have to wait for the microphone for the live stream.
And it would be also nice for you if you could introduce yourself, your affiliation and so on.
So decision makers also know who you're talking to.
Who they're talking to.
Yeah, and I think that's all from my side.
I really hope we can learn a lot on this conversation.
And again, let's try to keep an eye on the future and how we can monitor implementation of all these amazing regulations happening.
And yeah, without any further ado, then I'll hand over the floor to Issa from...
I'll bring this. Oh, cool. You got it.
Okay.
I'll do it. No worries.
Yeah, from Edgy.
Yeah, thank you very much, Lina.
Okay, here.
And thank you very much.
Thanks for the slides.
Issa is with us on behalf of...
She's one of my colleagues in the Commission, Digit B2, our recent new unit.
And Issa is also very much informed on open source.
I'm happy that she's here. Thanks.
And me too. I'm very happy and thankful to be here because I think it's a great opportunity.
I'm also very thankful for Lina introducing the act as something that is important and should get more attention.
Because I'm completely unbiased after working four years on this.
But of course, I also believe that this is an important piece.
But for now, it's a piece of paper.
And it will only get to live when...
And it will also be on you to make this... fill this with life.
And I think there are some opportunities in there.
And this is what I'm going to focus on today.
And then I'm looking forward to the discussion and to your ideas.
And yeah. So let's get started.
What's this act about?
And I mean, the first very maybe disappointing news for you.
It's not an open source law.
And it's not nothing that... now we can say, yeah, it's clear that it's not an open source law.
But it's something that has actually been discussed.
And has actually been discussed from the very early start when we did the impact assessment.
Should we have a law that is on GovTech, open GovTech.
But then we saw that there was no majority for this path.
So now the interoperability policy evolved into the Interoperability Europe Act.
And maybe I just quickly why no majority.
This actually came from both sides.
So from those who are very much fan of open source but said,
but if we want to do an open source law, it should be made in a different way
and shouldn't build now on this interoperability.
Then it's too linked. It's too much in one direction.
We should do it properly.
Let's not make it from the back door in open source law.
That was the fans of open source who were against making this an open source law.
And then there were the ones that said, yeah, but we are not there in the public sector.
This might hinder the digitalization of the public sector.
So this is what we found.
We put something in the middle.
That's the compromise that we found. This is what I'm going to present now.
And what was the main objective of the act?
It was to help EU and member states administration to deliver connected digital services
to citizens and businesses across Europe.
And I think I don't need to tell you that open source can contribute to this.
I just strongly believe it.
And I also don't need to talk to you about how interoperability is linked
with this objective and with open source.
What is maybe interesting is that the European interoperability policy
has always focused not only on technical interoperability,
but has these four dimensions of also legal, semantic and organizational.
And that was very much in the negotiations that we've talked a lot about.
How can we actually make stronger mechanisms to help also legal and organizational interoperability?
And this you might also find back when I now go into the components of the act.
Because we say the act is structured around these four components.
So a structured and co-owned EU cooperation governance,
mandatory interoperability assessments,
recognized in your reusable interoperability solutions,
and strengthened interoperability support.
And now I'm going to tell you more about what this keywords, what we mean with this.
So I start with the solutions.
One of the mechanisms that will be established is that the EU public administrations in Europe,
and they are the ones that are actually the act is addressed to EU administrations from EU level
until a member states local level.
And all the binding requirements that are in the act go towards these public administrations.
They don't go towards private parties.
And those ones will decide together on certain solutions, and solutions are in a very broad term.
So solutions can even be a framework, can be an architecture, can be guidelines, can also be a solution,
can of course be software.
Like the definition that is in the act is quite broad,
but the public sector will agree in this interoperability governance
that there are interoperability solutions that will become interoperable Europe solutions,
so that everybody will not be, they don't have to reuse it,
but they will at least need to look into the reuse of such solutions.
And this I think is an opportunity for the open source community that wants to know
where is the EU public sector moving, looking into the interoperability Europe solutions,
might help them to see, okay, if this is here in the catalogue,
then it's not a software that fits with those interoperability Europe solutions,
it might be easier for public administrations to reuse it.
And then another thing around the solutions that what we've managed to get into the law is that sharing is a default.
And for now, between public administration, sharing is not a default,
and proper territory solutions are a default.
And if you want to share among the solutions, then the IT people go to the lawyers of this world,
and I'm going to talk about one of them so I can talk better about them,
and they will ask those people, can we share, there's somebody else who wants to reuse it,
and then the lawyers come and say, yeah, but this is problematic, and there might be this and this problem.
So because, and we hope that by just putting in a law that normally if somebody asks you, you have to share,
then the lawyers already need to argue why can't I share.
So we hope that this changing the default might already be a push in the right direction to make public administrations that are,
and they also have to be risk, very risk adverse, to be more friendly towards taking this risk and being brave.
And what come in the negotiations, also, and that's what Lena also talked about,
is that there is also a small thing about priority to open source solutions when you are doing interoperability solutions,
and this is something that is now very new in the text, and that public administration will need guidance on how to implement this,
and will need help on, and this also I think where the community has an opportunity to help them, guide them on how can we really make this work and put this into practice.
As a second component, there is this governance, and there is, the governance is composed, as Alina already said,
around the board and the community, and in the community is, we were thinking about you also as part of the community,
of course also the community of local public administrations in the board, actually it's only the member states represented,
but IT is very, sometimes very federal and some scattered around all public administrations levels,
so the community is really about putting many different actors in the field together,
and then giving structured input, channeling this input also maybe with digital platforms, digital tools towards the board,
to take the decision to have always a sounding mechanism towards the board.
Another thing that I haven't seen when we were drafting the law, but when I talked with open source people who said that was interesting for them,
was the clear points of contact that with this law, we are having now responsibles on member states level and in EU institutions who will need to implement the law,
so when you have anything that is linkable to the law, you know who to reach out to, and that this is something that is actually important for the community.
The third component, the mandatory interoperability assessments, I think this links back to the discussion I heard here before on the fishbowl where you said,
but it needs the right processes and how do we get into the policy making, and it's very hard to bring the two worlds together actually,
the interoperability assessments will be something that when public, in the public sector, is setting any binding requirements for their digital public services in the future,
before taking a decision on these binding requirements, they would need to do and publish a mandatory interoperability assessment,
and I think this interoperability assessment report will for the community create a lot of transparency and help them actually then also engage in policy discussions afterwards,
because the policy text is already translated into concrete requirements, maybe it might not always be technical requirements,
because if you look at the law, it might be requirements on business level, and now we are looking into how to really make this work in practice,
but I think it's a very interesting tool that can actually help bring, and that's why we put it in the law,
because it's about illegal interoperability bringing IT and policy together and helping to have this conversation early in the process,
and not when the law is already written and then you sit there with the law with requirements that are actually not implemented in a user-friendly, citizen-friendly, engaging way.
So that's definitely something we need to talk about in the community and to develop in the coming months.
The fourth component is what is also in the law, it's around GovTech cooperation, there is innovation projects,
and it's the first time that there's a definition around GovTech also in the law,
so it's just that the recognition that this is important, even if there is no strong legal requirements around it,
I think this is an important step because it helps to argue that this is important, if you say,
but because it's an allowance, it's important.
Then we have a spot on regulatory sandboxes, and here also for me, they are an enabler for legal interoperability,
and they have to involve also the GovTech, but create a way when you do innovative stuff to have the York legal questions channeled towards the EU level
and have the EU regulators already pre-discuss on how can we tackle this, how can we have this innovation also rolled out in a legally safe environment.
Last point is upskilling of the public sector, and this might also sound a bit vague and lame that is in the act,
because it's nothing, it's not something you go and the police can come and say, you have to upskill,
but I think if there is, it's mentioned in the act that the public administrations have to skill their stuff on interoperability,
and I think you can't skill them on interoperability without talking about openness, without talking about open code.
So I think a lot of these trainings will be created in the next coming years,
so together then look into what can we push, what messages, and then you can talk in the public sector to people who know about open source
and are not afraid of open source. So this is an opportunity for me.
And one opportunity that I don't have on the slide is that this is going to be evaluated, so everything that is not in today,
now if we talk, get the right questions in this evaluation, then it might be that in the next version this can also get into the text,
so this is the entry model and we will see where this takes us, but this also needs early involvement,
this needs, actually, that the community reaches out as soon as possible and say, this is our ideas for where it should go,
and this is the question we should ask. So I'm very, as I say, now maybe you understand why I think it's very relevant that we are here
and that we start this conversation and looking forward to the discussion. Thank you.
.