[00:00.000 --> 00:13.600] Okay. Hi, folks. Thanks for this talk. I wanted also to thanks for them and the organizers [00:13.600 --> 00:21.040] here for this dev room because I'm very happy that the translation to make part of the topics [00:21.040 --> 00:28.880] in such an important event. So it's a very good news, I think. Well, I wanted to propose this [00:28.880 --> 00:37.440] talk because, well, personally, I have started Free Software in 2004 and I have done some [00:37.440 --> 00:45.840] contributions to the Debian project for a long time, but I only started translation in this project. [00:46.640 --> 00:58.000] I have started that since 2018. Well, I told myself, how could we help new contributors, [00:58.000 --> 01:06.480] new users, new potential commerce, to help the translations team with the capabilities that [01:06.480 --> 01:13.360] Debian can provide for them and also with what Debian can't provide. And it's also what we're [01:13.360 --> 01:19.920] going to see and we're going to see why it's not so easy, actually. And so I told myself also, [01:19.920 --> 01:26.560] well, I'm sure some people think that, oh, but why Debian doesn't use modern tools such as wood [01:26.560 --> 01:35.200] lights such as modern for editors or things like that. And so I had the thought about that. [01:36.000 --> 01:43.200] And to myself, well, why not share that with people to understand why Debian works like that [01:43.200 --> 01:51.840] and how a user, a new user could contribute with this way of working and without no problem and [01:51.840 --> 02:00.160] without problems with satisfaction. So the example I take is, of course, this is a French [02:00.160 --> 02:06.800] translation team because it's the team I know the best, of course. It's a very small team. [02:07.760 --> 02:14.720] And it's a very, very small team. As you see, there are few people. There have been people [02:14.720 --> 02:22.240] for a long time, but it's never a team with 10 or 20 persons. No, it's a very, very small team. And [02:22.240 --> 02:30.000] also it's not a team which have a lot of technical skills. I mean, there are some Debian developers [02:30.000 --> 02:38.560] but which are technical, they are one or two. And most other Debian developers of this team are [02:38.560 --> 02:45.120] not uploaders. That is, they don't or they are not considered or they are not considered themselves [02:45.120 --> 02:51.040] able to do uploads of new packages or things like that. So it's not a technical team. It's [02:52.400 --> 03:01.120] really a translation team and not a technical team. And amazing results are produced by this [03:01.120 --> 03:08.800] team. I mean that it's a very small team but very amazing results exist. For example, we have [03:09.360 --> 03:16.240] all the things we translate and we know that we are the third language best translated in the [03:16.240 --> 03:23.760] project. And when we see the amount of work which is needed to get that, I think the team may be [03:23.760 --> 03:31.120] very, very happy. And I can say it because I don't make part of all the team and I don't make part of [03:31.120 --> 03:38.000] these projects. So congratulations to other members of the staff. So the websites, the installer, [03:38.720 --> 03:46.000] all the things which are translated from up to nearly 100%, the Debian package descriptions [03:46.000 --> 03:54.800] which are not translated, of course, very much. But the most important are translated and it's [03:54.800 --> 04:01.840] very important for us also to enable French users to get the package description, at least for those [04:01.840 --> 04:11.920] they have more chance to use. So I think it's very amazing results when we know the real size of [04:11.920 --> 04:23.760] the team. Then we work for a project which has been a very long history, as you know. The first [04:23.760 --> 04:29.520] message, I was very happy to discover that preparing this talk. The first message of the [04:29.520 --> 04:38.480] Debian translation team for French is in 1998. It's very old. The world has changed very much [04:38.480 --> 04:47.120] since this year, of course. And in particular, the technical world. So of course, the process, [04:47.120 --> 04:56.480] the workflow is made based today. And we have web pages, web pages which enable to have a tracking [04:56.480 --> 05:02.320] of the situations and to have some statistics and to have some information. Some bots who [05:02.320 --> 05:09.200] automate some things and also some statistics. And some made-based to have a workflow between the [05:09.200 --> 05:20.240] members of the team to ensure that the translation has a good quality. The tools, as I said, are [05:20.240 --> 05:27.840] made-based. That is, on the Debian mailing list, the Debian mailing list for the team, the French [05:27.840 --> 05:37.840] in the French team, there is a bot who is able to receive the topics, the subject of the messages [05:37.840 --> 05:45.760] sent by the member of the list to pass them and to produce statistics from this and to produce [05:45.760 --> 05:52.880] some status of the packages or the pages we are translating. So it's very important, of course, [05:52.880 --> 05:59.680] because it enables all the members of the team to know if, for example, someone is working on [05:59.680 --> 06:06.640] something or the status of something if it's up-to-date or if it's not up-to-date or other [06:06.640 --> 06:16.080] information like that. So the thing, of course, is, well, what can we do with the made-based [06:16.080 --> 06:22.240] process given the number of things we have to do? Well, we track the changes. So it's very [06:22.240 --> 06:32.080] important. We can know the status of the translations. And even if we've stopped working for a long time, [06:32.080 --> 06:37.840] we are able, easily, to join the team again and to know what's the situation and what about [06:37.840 --> 06:47.600] the situation. There are also coordination pages. So with the tracking pages, which enable to do [06:47.600 --> 06:55.600] that. So we have the announces for the websites. We have the package translated via profiles. [06:55.600 --> 07:03.600] Packages are translated because they are classical programs. So they have this, they use GetText [07:03.600 --> 07:10.400] as many programs today. Also descriptions, also depth course screens. Depth course, of course, [07:10.400 --> 07:14.960] the screens that the user gets when he's installing a package to set some configuration at the [07:14.960 --> 07:23.520] installation time. And the website, of course, which is a very high work. So I think the problem [07:23.520 --> 07:31.840] of the Dibian project and the reason for which it's probably very difficult to use automated tools [07:32.880 --> 07:42.240] is that there is a lot of formats which are used as inputs and also outputs. [07:42.240 --> 07:48.880] I mean, inputs, we have at least a packages description database, which has some formats. I'm [07:48.880 --> 07:55.520] not sure I know what it is about, but it's not a format such as po-files or HTML files. It's another [07:55.520 --> 08:03.360] kind of format. It's a database. HTML, of course, and the po-files. And for the outputs, we need to [08:03.360 --> 08:09.440] produce, of course, some translations, some classical, typical translations we find in any other kind [08:09.440 --> 08:19.840] of programs of free software, but also the websites, so HTML pages. And various other formats. So [08:20.720 --> 08:29.840] it's not so easy to ship that in a kind of automated tool because it's really a really [08:29.840 --> 08:37.200] quite big task of administration to set that initially. And I remember that in the team, [08:37.200 --> 08:45.600] we have not a lot of technical skills and we are not very numerous. So we can understand that we [08:45.600 --> 08:51.600] prefer going out with males, even if it's probably not perfect, but at least it enables people to [08:51.600 --> 08:57.600] work. While changing to another kind of tools, even if it would have benefits about the interface [08:57.600 --> 09:03.440] and the user experience, it would be really a challenge, a very important challenge. [09:03.440 --> 09:10.880] So changing is very difficult. Is it a good idea also? It's an idea that the team wonders sometimes. [09:10.880 --> 09:19.600] Is it a good idea? We wonder that in particular because that's right, there are not a lot of [09:19.600 --> 09:28.160] new contributors if we have a look annually. However, when people come and contribute to the [09:28.160 --> 09:34.160] translation project in Debian, they stay with us. They don't leave us. So probably it means that [09:34.160 --> 09:42.640] once we manage to adopt the tools, to adopt the process, we like it and people are comfortable [09:42.640 --> 09:54.160] with it. So even if it's not modern, once you take the care to learn it, at the end, I think we can [09:54.160 --> 10:04.160] be comfortable with that. In particular because, well, we can get things offline. In particular [10:04.160 --> 10:10.160] because we can take the poll and do some stupid things without being sure you are not breaking [10:10.160 --> 10:15.360] all of the process or you are not breaking all the translation of others. So I think it gives [10:15.360 --> 10:24.800] some benefits that people are happy to have. And that's the reason for which moving is difficult. [10:24.800 --> 10:29.680] Because people are happy and we are not absolutely sure that changing that would be a good idea. [10:31.840 --> 10:38.080] And when we try changing, for example, we try to migrate the server for the package description [10:38.080 --> 10:44.880] to another server in Debian, it takes a year and it exhausted some people. So I'm not sure it's [10:44.880 --> 10:51.680] the best idea we can have, even if this migration was really important. But imagine if we should [10:51.680 --> 11:01.440] have a migration with more impact and more things to address. So instead of changing things, [11:02.880 --> 11:09.440] I suggest to propose to the users, to the new contributors, a kind of approach [11:09.440 --> 11:18.640] which enables everyone to, well, let's discover the project. Let's discover the interactions [11:18.640 --> 11:25.040] you can have with the team from the easiest to the most complex. And from this basis, [11:27.280 --> 11:37.760] do your way, follow your way. And the first step, for example, is for, and also, yes, [11:37.760 --> 11:42.800] on every step on the way, the idea is also to have two kind of status. The two kind of [11:42.800 --> 11:48.240] status, we are going to talk about that again in a few minutes, but it's more or less, okay, [11:48.800 --> 11:54.320] either I am a reviewer and I start to understand all the conventions of the team, how the team [11:54.320 --> 12:01.680] works, et cetera, or I become a translator myself. And of course, I start to contribute [12:01.680 --> 12:09.920] with other translators. So it's a way to contribute for the rhythm of everybody. [12:12.160 --> 12:17.120] I suggest that the first thing you can do if you want to contribute, because again, [12:17.120 --> 12:23.200] there are not some tools which are attractive, but also start with the easy thing. And translating [12:23.200 --> 12:30.240] the wiki pages of Debian, for example, would be an easy thing because much people love to use a wiki, [12:30.240 --> 12:37.840] it's not so difficult to use. And using a wiki today is, well, okay, you take the page, [12:37.840 --> 12:42.320] you cut and paste the contents, you create a new page on the French wiki, and well, [12:42.320 --> 12:48.480] and it's done. So it's not so complicated to do. And it's the first step which, [12:50.240 --> 12:57.360] well, creates a kind of initiation training for the translation. We saw so much consequences [12:57.360 --> 13:03.920] for the project because it's not an official resource, but it's a community resource. It's not [13:03.920 --> 13:10.160] a resource maintained by Debian members, so it's not a big problem if you do some mistakes or [13:10.160 --> 13:17.760] things like that. The next step is probably the package descriptions. It's interesting because [13:17.760 --> 13:23.120] there are a lot of responsibilities because, well, package descriptions are what users will see on [13:23.120 --> 13:29.120] their screen when they will see it for a package. However, the interface is simple. It's a web [13:29.120 --> 13:35.120] interface which is, well, there are some conventions, there are some rules to have, but there are also [13:35.120 --> 13:40.720] a first contact with the translation team. And it's something which is important because we have [13:40.720 --> 13:48.240] people who review what you're doing. So you can do what you do, what Debian used to do. And for [13:48.240 --> 13:52.880] example, if you try to translate some things like that, but Debian is used to translate [13:52.880 --> 13:59.520] differently, you will know that. If you're not compliant with some kind of syntax or kind of [13:59.520 --> 14:06.640] a way to introduce things, it will be said by the member of the team. So it's a first responsibility, [14:06.640 --> 14:11.600] a first contact with the team, but it's a simple interface without needing to understand something. [14:12.240 --> 14:17.440] So I think it's very interesting for that because it's a good point of beginning and [14:17.440 --> 14:24.720] especially what I like in the package description tools is that it's very short. At least you [14:24.720 --> 14:30.480] take some packages, such as latex, or of course latex, when you start translating the description [14:30.480 --> 14:37.600] of latex packages, it's less fun. At least sometimes 2,000 lines for a description. [14:39.360 --> 14:42.880] It's somewhat difficult. But if you translate some more [14:42.880 --> 14:49.280] typical packages, it may be very short. And you can do one package a day, for example. So you can [14:49.280 --> 14:56.400] do really at your rhythm, to learn at your rhythm, and not, well, with a minimum follow-up also. [14:57.200 --> 15:03.920] So I think it's the first step, which is very interesting. The next step could be the [15:03.920 --> 15:10.080] depth course screens on your way of a newcomer. So depth course screens is another thing because [15:10.080 --> 15:16.000] now you'll have to post your translations proposals on the mailing list and to go in the process. [15:16.800 --> 15:22.000] So to understand the virtual address that we made in the topic and the subject of the message, [15:22.000 --> 15:27.600] to be sure that the robot is able to understand what you're doing and to report that in the [15:27.600 --> 15:33.200] following, in the tracking stats, in the tracking tables. So it's a bit more difficult, but well, [15:33.200 --> 15:38.240] you start having an experience of the Debian ecosystem. So we can consider that maybe you're [15:38.240 --> 15:44.400] ready to understand that. Maybe you will meet someone physically. We will explain to you how [15:44.400 --> 15:52.560] things work. And, well, depth course, okay, you are going to now intend to translate requests for [15:52.560 --> 16:00.000] review, last chance for a contributor for review. So you are going to really come in the process, [16:00.000 --> 16:06.480] to come in the Debian process, and to start contributing to really important things also. [16:06.480 --> 16:12.640] And it's the first responsibility in the process of Debian with the mail, working, etc., etc. [16:14.720 --> 16:21.200] And once you are completely comfortable with that, so the process is also here with coordination [16:21.200 --> 16:28.240] of the packages, with the messages which mention their status, and once the mail is received, [16:28.240 --> 16:33.360] of course, you can translate your things, you translate your profiles with your own editor. [16:33.360 --> 16:39.360] With your own editor, why not on WebLate? Because I saw that WebLate can become a [16:39.360 --> 16:45.600] dictionary of translations while using its own editor. You test the results, you also can do [16:45.600 --> 16:52.560] that. You report when you finished and when the team is okay with your translation. You report [16:52.560 --> 16:58.960] the bug to upstream, to the package maintainer, sorry, so package maintainer, and it puts the [16:58.960 --> 17:06.240] profile in the package. And the benefits of that is you use your preferred text editor, as I said, [17:06.240 --> 17:13.200] or also your PoEditor, PoEdit or localize as some editors on KDE which work very much for that, [17:13.920 --> 17:19.200] to identify in particular the fuzzy strings or the translating strings. [17:20.880 --> 17:27.520] Yes, because I forgot to precise some important things also, is that if we should use some WebLate [17:27.520 --> 17:32.000] interface on something like that, there is another problem for some contributors like me, [17:32.000 --> 17:38.960] is their accessibility problems. So it would prevent persons to contribute due to accessibility [17:38.960 --> 17:45.200] problems. With this method, and like you can use some users, personally I use Emacs with GetText, [17:46.240 --> 17:50.640] it's easy because it's in text and there are not problems related to accessibility. [17:50.640 --> 17:58.960] Well, once you are comfortable with that, maybe you'll want to contribute to the [17:58.960 --> 18:04.160] effort of the Debian community to contribute to main pages. Map pages is a big project, [18:04.720 --> 18:13.680] 2,000 pages about, and a lot of updates, so it's a big project. But the good thing is the method [18:13.680 --> 18:19.680] is the same. So you clone the Git, you translate the profiles, you are on the mailing list with the [18:19.680 --> 18:26.800] topics, the virtual topics, to follow the process, and when it's finished, you commit, [18:26.800 --> 18:33.120] or you make someone in the team to commit. So you know the process, you know how it works, [18:33.120 --> 18:39.440] you know the conventions in Debian. So now you are able to contribute to any project based on [18:39.440 --> 18:45.840] poll files, even if it's not some, well, some packages themselves, but you can do main pages, [18:45.840 --> 18:50.160] you can do package description, you can do package, Debian packages themselves, [18:50.160 --> 18:54.000] so it becomes for you easy to contribute because you understand the process, [18:54.000 --> 19:04.240] and also the human beings in the community. Well, the benefits of the main pages is that [19:04.240 --> 19:12.080] well, just translate and discuss. You don't have any maintenance to do because German team does that [19:12.080 --> 19:19.360] and does that very good. So it's a very, a new area, which is accessible for everybody, [19:19.360 --> 19:27.760] and which is very cool to use. The next step, and it's useful for the community, of course, [19:27.760 --> 19:34.400] because as you know, main pages, Debian translates that, but we don't translate only for Debian. [19:34.400 --> 19:39.760] We translate for all the communities because main pages are used in all the distributions. [19:39.760 --> 19:45.920] So also this translation is a way for you to contribute for all the community. [19:48.400 --> 19:54.800] Then you have documentation, the Debian specific documentation. So related to the Debian software, [19:55.600 --> 20:00.800] we have the release notes, of course, we have the Debian developers reference, etc., etc., [20:00.800 --> 20:06.720] but also now it's only poll files. So it's not so difficult to understand how it works and the [20:06.720 --> 20:12.480] process to have a review and to have a quality assurance by the community of the translators. [20:14.000 --> 20:21.200] And packages, same thing, in interaction with the community, we can also now translate all the [20:21.200 --> 20:28.000] things. According to your time, you will choose one of these projects or just translate for one, [20:28.000 --> 20:32.240] two, three, or all those projects, according to the time and the energy you have. [20:32.240 --> 20:41.840] The analysis also, of course, it starts being a bit different, just like the website, because you [20:41.840 --> 20:49.120] will start to play with HTML. So it starts to be different. It's a new area. And I think [20:49.760 --> 20:55.360] starting with package descriptions avoids any difficulty from a technical point of view. [20:55.360 --> 21:03.200] Then poll files, it starts making you in front of the difficulty of the process, but, well, [21:03.200 --> 21:12.560] okay, the process is done. And to finish, you come to HTML pages where it may seem for some [21:12.560 --> 21:18.560] people somewhat difficult, because, well, you have to address tags and many things that you [21:18.560 --> 21:24.400] have on an HTML page. So it may be somewhat difficult. And, however, it's important because [21:24.400 --> 21:30.560] on the website, we have the security analysis, we have the publicity, we have all the platform for [21:30.560 --> 21:38.080] the Debian project leader. So it may become important. And for any of these steps, you can, [21:38.080 --> 21:43.600] of course, take the time, for example, to take three years to package descriptions and then wait [21:43.600 --> 21:49.760] still three years for main pages, et cetera, according to your rhythm and your energy. And [21:49.760 --> 21:57.040] especially, you can do what you want, review or translating. Generally, when arriving, [21:57.600 --> 22:02.720] we suggest to review, to understand the conventions, to understand the things and to not [22:02.720 --> 22:07.360] to take some time in your life. Then if you want to contribute to translating directly, [22:07.360 --> 22:16.400] it's a good idea. What I mean here is that we can do really at the, well, with the ways, [22:16.400 --> 22:21.600] with minimum ways and minimum installations and a minimum understanding things and especially on [22:21.600 --> 22:29.200] the progressive ways. Also, you can track in translations. So you subscribe to the mailing [22:29.200 --> 22:34.480] list and you have a look at translations and you follow what happens in matter of review [22:34.480 --> 22:40.720] and in matter of translating new if you consider that it's simple or short enough to make you [22:40.720 --> 22:47.360] spend the time to do it. So review and translating as the two steps, the two steps you can do at [22:47.360 --> 22:56.400] any time in the process and in your way on Debian. So to conclude, I would say that it's not an [22:56.400 --> 23:01.520] automated process because we don't have the capability to do that. And I think the project [23:01.520 --> 23:08.000] is too complex today to do that efficiently. And it would imply some engineering to do things [23:08.000 --> 23:17.920] properly. But we have today some way, I think, and it's what I try to suggest on the Wiki pages [23:17.920 --> 23:23.360] about translation and how to contribute and to start contributing and not being discouraging, [23:23.360 --> 23:30.560] discouraged, I could have been during some years. There is a way from the most obvious, [23:30.560 --> 23:38.000] technically speaking, to less obvious with a contact with the community which is progressive. [23:38.720 --> 23:45.920] And you discover how things work, the conventions, of course. The team discovers also if you are [23:45.920 --> 23:51.680] ready to respect how the team works because we had some contributors which where we've [23:51.680 --> 23:56.640] used it was complicated because they decided to do things like he wanted. Yes, but there is a team, [23:56.640 --> 24:04.080] a history, so you can't do things as you want. Even if you're right, take the time and respect [24:04.080 --> 24:12.960] what other people do. And also, it's important to say that on the mailing list, also, if you start [24:13.840 --> 24:19.520] contributing via the mailing list, you have the chance to get your native language because [24:20.400 --> 24:25.920] in the French mailing list, but also in Italian, in Spanish, or any language, you have for the [24:25.920 --> 24:31.920] translation teams, of course, people speaking your native language. So, for example, now, [24:31.920 --> 24:38.080] how to translate this English term in the language, it may be useful. And, for example, [24:38.080 --> 24:44.400] in the package description, we also have a glossary to help people to know, okay, this English word [24:44.400 --> 24:50.240] which has a strange translation, should I translate, or if I shouldn't translate, what should I do [24:50.240 --> 24:56.000] with that? And if I should translate, what kind of word is used usually? And once you do that, [24:56.000 --> 25:02.480] you can learn. And also, without any complicated tools or with no difficulties, [25:02.480 --> 25:07.440] you can start translating. And so, you can become a deviant translator. Thanks. [25:07.440 --> 25:09.440] Oops. [25:19.360 --> 25:20.960] If you have some feedback or some questions. [25:24.560 --> 25:31.440] For me, I can answer a feedback, a global feedback, a kind of policy feedback because [25:31.440 --> 25:38.320] I have seen that maybe there is a fragmentation in different distributions in Linux, and some [25:38.320 --> 25:50.080] have an advantage, and also not for this website. And so, because I never found a distribution [25:50.080 --> 25:57.840] that convinced me perfectly. For instance, for me, you have problems with vision, but for me, [25:57.840 --> 26:04.240] I have little problems with vision agronomy. And so, I should appreciate the scrolling bar [26:04.240 --> 26:12.000] with a great enlarge, not a line to be picked up to adjust and sort of like that. [26:12.000 --> 26:17.360] I have some problems like that. It makes Linux, they have a good scrolling bar, [26:17.360 --> 26:26.320] but also problems. So, it's a kind, I'd like to wish more cooperation [26:26.320 --> 26:32.320] with Linux, there was a problem of system day also, something like that. But I think it's [26:32.320 --> 26:44.000] important for Linux community in general to have a better cooperation with different projects. [26:46.320 --> 26:51.920] I think that the importance is free software, even if what you say is right, I'm okay with that. [26:51.920 --> 26:57.760] But according to my understanding of things and about translation, it's right also, [26:58.400 --> 27:06.880] is that the user finds a way for himself. I mean, that's, okay, Debian has his way of work, [27:07.680 --> 27:12.400] human too has his way of work, and any project has his way of work according to the history, [27:12.400 --> 27:19.840] according to what it needs to be done, et cetera. Well, the thing is how to enable a user to find [27:19.840 --> 27:26.160] among all the existing ways a way for him. And I think it's right for any new users, [27:26.160 --> 27:32.080] that's actually what you're saying, but also it's right for new contributors, because contributing [27:32.080 --> 27:38.800] may work according to some rules, some community interactions, some tools, of course. So, it's [27:38.800 --> 27:45.360] not a kind of what is better, what is not better, it's only a kind of is it sweet for you, actually. [27:45.360 --> 27:51.440] And in the community, the benefit is that you have this diversity, which enables you to decide [27:51.440 --> 27:56.800] what is good for you and what is good for your way of doing things. So, it's a good thing. [27:56.800 --> 28:01.200] But yes, there are a lot of ways, and to find the way good for you is not easy. [28:01.200 --> 28:16.080] I think the Delian community has something very good on which we should all learn to do is you [28:16.080 --> 28:21.840] have a very good translation workflow, and I think this is something valuable, and this is the reason [28:21.840 --> 28:32.560] why you are able to continue doing some e-mail translation still, even if the world is using [28:33.760 --> 28:41.600] much different workflow, and I think that your bigger value is this. And my question would be, [28:43.200 --> 28:47.520] what are the limitations that you see in the existing translation platform, [28:47.520 --> 28:57.520] in terms of accessibility for you who are blind, but also in terms of way to collaborate as a team, [28:58.320 --> 29:06.480] because I did a push for web late in many places, it helps a lot, but it doesn't create any miracle. [29:07.520 --> 29:13.920] The community needs to find a way to define the workflow, the way to collaborate together, [29:13.920 --> 29:18.480] and this is something that the rest of the open source community can learn from the Delian community. [29:19.120 --> 29:24.320] Your tools are a little bit play-stricken, but you are in a way of working, are very clear, [29:24.320 --> 29:30.080] and easy to understand, and I would be interesting to have your feedback on the translation [29:30.080 --> 29:37.200] platform in terms of accessibility, and what are lacking to have a proper collaboration as a team [29:37.200 --> 29:45.440] in what you have today. Thanks, because you sum up what I want to show here. What you say [29:45.440 --> 29:51.600] is exactly what I think and I want to show, but I know, and I'm aware from some feedbacks I can [29:51.600 --> 29:59.920] have, and because I know there is a low stream of new, a low flow of new contributors, that maybe, [29:59.920 --> 30:04.320] and I say maybe because I'm not sure myself about that, because for me it, indeed, what [30:04.320 --> 30:10.400] the tools we are using now are perfect because they are accessible, because they work, and because [30:10.400 --> 30:16.320] they enable to have a record and to have a team collaboration, so for me these tools are really [30:16.320 --> 30:23.360] perfect, but in the new generation of new contributors, I know that indeed there are some [30:23.360 --> 30:32.960] more friendly interfaces, some more design, some ways to do a UI and UX, which is more [30:32.960 --> 30:39.440] beautiful and more friendly, more attractive, more, also, or you have a less learning curve, so [30:39.440 --> 30:44.240] you can come in the project, do something, up to leave, no problem, you don't have to learn during [30:44.240 --> 30:50.080] some months, some things, et cetera, et cetera, so also the problem today is the new contributors [30:50.080 --> 30:56.720] in the society is that people want, doesn't want less, want to get involved on the long term, [30:56.720 --> 31:01.040] they want to come to try something, give it a try, up and to leave, because well, we have our [31:01.040 --> 31:04.800] lives, we have our obligations, et cetera, and that's right in Debian, it's something more [31:04.800 --> 31:09.520] difficult, because in libraries, for example, you can go, okay, you have an error or a mistake on [31:09.520 --> 31:14.720] the string, you open the web later, up, you fix the string, up, and you leave away, and perfect, [31:14.720 --> 31:19.200] well, in Debian, it's not possible, well, it's possible for the package description, because [31:19.200 --> 31:23.920] it's a web interface, there is not a learning curve, it's very simple, but for people who don't [31:23.920 --> 31:30.000] want to do the effort to learn, we don't want to do the effort of understanding deeply things, [31:30.000 --> 31:36.080] well, it may be destructive. Is it a bad news? I don't know, I'm not sure, but the fact is that [31:36.080 --> 31:40.640] the team is small, and the fact is that we have not few contributors, so I wonder if it's an [31:40.640 --> 31:47.680] limitation, but for contributors who try their best to do that, I think these tools are, indeed, [31:47.680 --> 31:48.720] are really, really perfect. [31:52.480 --> 31:54.560] Yeah, just one more question for the neutral pinch. [31:54.560 --> 32:02.080] So you've sort of approached us to create new translations, can you give some examples [32:02.080 --> 32:06.880] how you, what you've tried and recipes to update existing translations, like the original text [32:06.880 --> 32:12.480] changes, the English text changes, how to know about this, you notified the same translator as before, [32:13.760 --> 32:15.840] did everybody jump in and change that? [32:15.840 --> 32:31.680] Well, actually, for example, to take the deep core for the main pages, for example, [32:31.680 --> 32:38.240] when there is an update, the translator has a warning, he knows that he has something which is [32:38.240 --> 32:44.000] because the translator is considered as the last one who can do the changes or who should do the [32:44.000 --> 32:51.840] changes. Once he has this warning, either via mail or because he has a look on the statistics page, [32:52.480 --> 32:58.720] he says, okay, so I will do that. So he sends a mail with an address saying that, okay, [32:58.720 --> 33:05.280] this page, this description, this profile, I will translate it. So there is a mail and the [33:05.280 --> 33:11.200] community has the information, is notified that the person is going to translate. After it, [33:11.200 --> 33:19.360] it will translate the profile or the file in it and then said, okay, now I finished, thanks to review [33:19.360 --> 33:26.000] the translation. So there are some review, it's a process which can be on five days or 10 days [33:26.000 --> 33:33.040] according to the number of mistakes which needs to be fixed, et cetera. And at the end, he says, [33:33.040 --> 33:38.480] okay, last chance for change. So, okay, it's the last chance for you to review and to tell me if [33:38.480 --> 33:43.920] there is a problem. And once that's done, when the mail arrives on the community team, if there is [33:43.920 --> 33:51.600] not any reply, well, okay, the translator can either report a bug to say to the maintainer of [33:51.600 --> 33:57.600] the package, okay, there is a new translation, it's updates. Please put it in your package or [33:57.600 --> 34:05.040] you can do it itself, himself or herself, if the person has the permissions to access to the [34:05.040 --> 34:10.720] git and the repository and to do the translation. So it's a manual, but of course there are some [34:10.720 --> 34:16.480] scripts to do that. You don't have to do that manually, it's not a mandatory. But the process [34:16.480 --> 34:35.440] is really, you have a follow-up of the situation via mail. Okay, thank you. Thanks.