[00:00.000 --> 00:18.360]  Hi everyone, my name is Yaquo and today I'll be presenting your topic Linux on risk 5.
[00:18.360 --> 00:25.360]  I'll try to speak up so if you have any problems hearing me just let me know so I'll try to
[00:25.360 --> 00:33.360]  be louder. So what are we going to talk about? What? Louder, okay. So what are we going to
[00:33.360 --> 00:38.400]  talk about today? The topic is titled Linux on risk 5 but I'm actually going to talk mostly
[00:38.400 --> 00:44.800]  about gento support for risk 5 but we're also going to mention other Linux distributions
[00:44.800 --> 00:51.320]  how they handle risk 5 how other mainstream Linux applications are also supporting risk
[00:51.320 --> 01:01.200]  5 and what what you can actually you know do using Linux systems on risk 5. So a little bit
[01:01.200 --> 01:07.520]  about myself I'm yeah my name is Yaquo coming from Croatia I work as a firmware engineer in
[01:07.520 --> 01:16.200]  Croatia most of my work is done revolving around better Linux development and integration however
[01:16.200 --> 01:23.080]  for my main job I do not work with risk 5 but I've been I had a privilege to contribute to open
[01:23.080 --> 01:29.440]  source as a gento Linux developer since 2021 and actually gento is where I've been able to get
[01:29.440 --> 01:35.640]  in touch with or get contact with risk 5 so I've been involved in a gento risk 5 team.
[01:35.640 --> 01:50.000]  Yeah I'll try to. So I'll try not to repeat too many details I'm sure most of you are familiar
[01:50.000 --> 01:56.600]  with with the architecture itself. So what is risk 5? So it's an open source instruction set
[01:56.600 --> 02:03.560]  architecture it was designed at Berkeley University in USA it was their fifth architecture which was
[02:03.560 --> 02:10.360]  designed hence the name risk 5. So how is it actually designed? It is designed to be a stable
[02:10.360 --> 02:18.960]  and modular architecture so we actually have a base base integer instruction sets that provide
[02:18.960 --> 02:25.440]  like stable base on top of you can up top of which additional instruction extensions can be built on.
[02:25.440 --> 02:33.200]  Nowadays it's led by risk 5 foundation which is organization which was founded to you know maintain
[02:33.200 --> 02:43.760]  intellectual property legal stuff related with risk 5 and so on. Speaking about risk 5 instruction
[02:43.760 --> 02:52.120]  set architecture so we have a three main base base instruction sets which is 32, 64 and 128 bits.
[02:52.120 --> 02:57.680]  All of them are designed so that they work or they are independent of each other so you cannot
[02:57.680 --> 03:09.520]  run there's no running 32 bit binaries on 64 bit systems. There's also 128 bit architecture but it's
[03:09.520 --> 03:16.560]  currently not frozen yet so it's still in for us the most important one is going to be risk 5 64
[03:16.560 --> 03:21.360]  bit because that's the one that actually most most of the linear distributions are going to target.
[03:21.360 --> 03:28.920]  Now we mentioned some of the extensions so how they are designed? They're designed so they actually
[03:28.920 --> 03:33.960]  they can coexist with each other. They do not conflict with each other and they can be built
[03:33.960 --> 03:42.720]  on top of any of the previous base instructions we've mentioned. So we got some extensions listed
[03:42.720 --> 03:49.520]  here such as M for integer multiplication and division. We got A for atomic operations and
[03:49.520 --> 03:58.400]  we have a single double quad precision floating point. So how is actually naming convention
[03:58.400 --> 04:07.120]  works for risk 5? So first part of the name is actually base integer instruction so if you
[04:07.120 --> 04:14.000]  have risk 5 64 it's going to be usually rv64i and then we have additional extensions that are
[04:14.000 --> 04:24.200]  built on top of the base instruction so for example you could have MAFD or any extension that is
[04:24.200 --> 04:32.360]  built comes after the base integer. Nowadays we just to avoid having to write so many letters we're
[04:32.360 --> 04:40.000]  using a letter G which stands for general purpose instruction is just a combination of IMAFD because
[04:40.000 --> 04:47.760]  usually chips are designed to support all these extensions and then we have C which stands for
[04:47.760 --> 04:55.640]  compressed instructions. So now when we combine all this GNC we get RA64 GC to avoid having to
[04:55.640 --> 05:03.480]  write so many letters because it can expand to RA64 IMAFD which then expands to more letters
[05:03.480 --> 05:10.200]  depending on you know the version of extension that's implemented. Most most linear distributions
[05:10.200 --> 05:23.560]  will target RA64 GC instruction. So now let's talk a little bit about support in Gentoo. We have
[05:23.560 --> 05:33.440]  any Gentoo users in here? Alright okay. So I'm sure you know you've heard about Gentoo links so
[05:33.440 --> 05:38.680]  what is it? It's a source-based distribution and well this is actually the you know key feature
[05:38.680 --> 05:44.200]  that separates Gentoo from most of other mainstream distributions where usually you know when you
[05:44.200 --> 05:49.720]  want to download install package on your system your package manager downloads a binary
[05:49.720 --> 05:57.960]  pre-compiled package extracts it and installs it onto your system. While in Gentoo we you know we
[05:57.960 --> 06:03.040]  decided we're not gonna do any of this we're just gonna you know download and do compilation
[06:03.040 --> 06:10.200]  everything ourselves. So the main the core feature or the heart of Gentoo is its package manager
[06:10.200 --> 06:17.520]  called Portage. Portage is actually what allows you to have you know this really fine grained control
[06:17.520 --> 06:22.080]  over your system so you can choose many many different components when you build your system
[06:22.080 --> 06:28.000]  like you can choose a toolchain components you can choose your in-it system you can even change
[06:28.000 --> 06:36.360]  libc if you want it and so on. So it's actually designed to be like when you want to download
[06:36.360 --> 06:42.040]  Gentoo you just download a minimal set of it's called a stage three archive so it's just a
[06:42.040 --> 06:47.320]  minimal set of programs and tools that you can use to you know later customize to your
[06:47.320 --> 06:55.920]  own to your own needs. I've mentioned profiles and use flex is just some features of Portage
[06:55.920 --> 07:01.360]  that allow you to to maybe more easily you know customize and configure your system so profiles
[07:01.360 --> 07:07.800]  are basically set of configuration files that typically you select a profile when you do Gentoo
[07:07.800 --> 07:14.120]  installation so profile will you know it will determine what packages you will want to you
[07:14.120 --> 07:20.080]  want to install and what features you will have in your system. Use flags maybe the name is not so
[07:20.080 --> 07:27.920]  intuitive we can think of it as a feature flags or just configuration flags it's just a flag that
[07:27.920 --> 07:33.720]  package manager uses to determine whether you want to you know for example build one package with
[07:33.720 --> 07:38.960]  certain feature or not so let's say you want to install Gentoo on a system that doesn't have you
[07:38.960 --> 07:43.760]  know you're installing it on a server or a headless system so obviously you're not going to need
[07:43.760 --> 07:51.680]  support for graphics interface so what you can do you can just look up these use flags that are
[07:51.680 --> 07:56.760]  available in Gentoo and then you can just you know oh I'll find the use flag that controls whether my
[07:56.760 --> 08:02.560]  packages are built with or without no support for graphical interface you're simply going to turn
[08:02.560 --> 08:08.720]  this flag off and you're not even going to pull any of this stuff like X11 or Wayland whatever so
[08:08.720 --> 08:12.640]  you're going to have to you're going to be able to have you know system that is completely you know
[08:12.640 --> 08:18.120]  I'm not going to say bloat free but it's going to be very you know you're not going to have to you
[08:18.120 --> 08:27.000]  can customize it to your own needs that's the point. What architectures does Gentoo support so
[08:27.000 --> 08:35.520]  I've listed probably about 15 if I counted correctly so we actually have three levels let's say
[08:35.520 --> 08:43.280]  levels of support of architectures in Gentoo we have stable unstable and experimental as we can
[08:43.280 --> 08:49.240]  see risk 5 is currently in the unstable category well what's the difference between stable and
[08:49.240 --> 08:54.480]  unstable well the difference main difference is the architecture that are stable are going to
[08:54.480 --> 09:00.880]  receive much more testing you know continuous testing and unstable may have you know more bugs
[09:01.200 --> 09:08.200]  is not going to receive so much testing why why why risk 5 is still unstable well primarily because
[09:08.200 --> 09:14.520]  of there's no powerful hardware to enable us to you know compile these packages quickly enough so
[09:14.520 --> 09:21.520]  probably if we would try to turn risk 5 into stable architecture we would just would be too much
[09:21.520 --> 09:30.640]  you know time consuming and it would fail for some point but generally nowadays risk 5 support is
[09:30.640 --> 09:35.440]  quite good there's no you know pretty much is polished and you can you know mostly bug free
[09:35.440 --> 09:49.720]  experience in Gentoo okay so let's talk a little bit about history of risk 5 port so I joined Gentoo
[09:49.720 --> 09:57.920]  in 2021 but this this boarding was done before my time so it was around 2019 by our colleague
[09:57.920 --> 10:04.000]  Andras not sure maybe he's here today with us so he was he was the one that added the initial
[10:04.000 --> 10:13.000]  profiles for risk 5 so two targets two main targets that Gentoo supported and still supports
[10:13.000 --> 10:23.560]  are RA64 GC and RA64 IMAC but actually the RA64 GC is going to be the main one which we are going
[10:23.560 --> 10:29.120]  to focus on gets that it will get the you know the most the biggest level of support in Gentoo
[10:29.120 --> 10:43.600]  yeah yeah no they're just for comparison so 8000 packages supported on risk 5 yeah just to compare
[10:43.600 --> 10:51.760]  numbers with arm 64 so yeah when we do testing of our packages we you know always make sure
[10:51.760 --> 10:57.600]  that we run tests and we want to make sure that you know tests are all tests are pressing or as
[10:57.600 --> 11:03.760]  much as you know it's possible in reasonable extent so probably not every package will be able to
[11:03.760 --> 11:08.320]  pass test but we do our best to you know either the package is working correctly tests are passing
[11:08.320 --> 11:12.720]  or if we you know find an issue we're gonna try to fix it or at least report upstream if we're
[11:12.720 --> 11:21.720]  unable to fix so yeah in these few years we've been able to you know almost get to the same
[11:21.720 --> 11:26.760]  level as arm 64 support in Gentoo which I believe is quite good for such a new architecture
[11:26.760 --> 11:35.000]  so maybe you're asking yourself why would you choose Gentoo so you have a risk 5 system you
[11:35.000 --> 11:40.840]  have a you know small board or you bought yourself a first let's say toy risk 5 toy why would you
[11:40.840 --> 11:47.720]  want to use Gentoo so may not be like the first obvious choice but Gentoo gives you high degree
[11:47.720 --> 11:52.520]  of freedom of flexibility so you have control over pretty much any any component of your system
[11:54.680 --> 11:59.480]  you will also have a latest software available if you use Gentoo so we try to you know stay on top
[11:59.480 --> 12:08.280]  of most recent you know software versions packages compilers etc so you're going to be able to have
[12:08.280 --> 12:16.600]  a latest and greatest let's say of what's available in the you know software just distribution packages
[12:16.600 --> 12:21.080]  so it can be a really good platform for developing you can develop either natively
[12:22.280 --> 12:28.440]  or you can develop also on your you know your laptop which is going to be much much quicker
[12:28.440 --> 12:33.560]  if you don't want to spend money buying a board you can just you know you can set up a cross
[12:33.560 --> 12:39.320]  compilation build environment also with Gentoo we have a tool that's called cross dev which is
[12:39.320 --> 12:46.120]  just a wrapper scripts that enable you to set up cross completion environment for you know
[12:46.120 --> 12:52.760]  you can do for any architecture you want so then after you build your you know cross tool chain you
[12:52.760 --> 12:59.720]  can then compile all other components that you need that you want to you know like libraries
[13:00.760 --> 13:06.040]  binaries whatever you need and then you can even you can either boot this image in QEMU and then
[13:06.040 --> 13:11.960]  work work over there or you can just like create your own bootable image and then put it on on your
[13:12.040 --> 13:15.480]  sd card and then if you have a board boot that
[13:22.440 --> 13:27.480]  so stage archive so I think I mentioned stage is basically just a simple it's a
[13:27.480 --> 13:35.080]  terrible that when you extract you get a minimal minimal Gentoo system which you know it will contain
[13:35.080 --> 13:43.240]  like libc tool chains tools you need to download and build your own programs or other packages
[13:44.520 --> 13:51.560]  so I've listed here well if you go to gentoo.org slash downloads you're going to have a an overview
[13:51.560 --> 13:55.560]  of you know every architecture and every stage you can download for every architecture
[13:56.440 --> 14:06.680]  I've listed some of the available archives for for risk 5 here so we got lp64d and lp64 abi
[14:07.560 --> 14:15.160]  images but the main ones are the main ones are the most stable ones are going to be lp64d so we
[14:15.160 --> 14:22.200]  have a you have variants with using system d or open rc depending on which in the system you want to
[14:22.200 --> 14:29.000]  use then we also have a glibc and muscle images so if you don't if you want to try out you know
[14:29.000 --> 14:33.880]  something other than glibc we also you know we allow you to do this or we try to you know
[14:33.880 --> 14:43.400]  offer you the choice um yeah we also got lp64 images there is also uh well let's say multi-lib
[14:43.400 --> 14:48.840]  image but it's more like things are not likely or things are more likely to break if you use the
[14:48.840 --> 14:53.000]  other the other ones but it's still available if you want to you know try it think around or just
[14:53.000 --> 15:05.880]  you know boot it up in a in a qem or something so risk 5 actually gentoo had a well we attempted
[15:05.880 --> 15:10.920]  to have a multi-lib support but when we say multi-lib it's we don't mean like running uh
[15:10.920 --> 15:17.400]  32 bit binaries on 64 because we cannot do that they're independent 32 and 64 bit but we tried to
[15:17.400 --> 15:26.680]  have a these two abis working together lp64d and lp64 so how how this was attempted was we had a
[15:26.680 --> 15:36.360]  separate libdir for each for each abi so lp64 would be in lib64 slash lp64d while other one would
[15:36.360 --> 15:43.320]  be in lp64 but well naturally this did not go without issues of course so some problems that
[15:43.320 --> 15:49.320]  this actually introduced was uh well we sometimes we would have you know partially broken build
[15:49.320 --> 15:55.640]  systems like for example cmake so what would happen is cmake would would look for some files and it
[15:55.640 --> 16:04.760]  looks um it searches these files in slash let's say slash usr lib64 but then on your system you
[16:04.760 --> 16:10.920]  don't have this you have slash usr lib64 lp64d so then of course the whole the whole thing
[16:10.920 --> 16:18.120]  will crash and you're unhappy because your package doesn't build so another thing that was uh well
[16:18.120 --> 16:23.720]  caused problems for us was uh some important packages were only supporting uh targeting
[16:24.520 --> 16:31.160]  ra64 gc or lp64d abi like rust and well nowadays rust is very important if you want to have a
[16:31.160 --> 16:39.880]  complete complete linux distribution um so yeah just over time this this caused a lot of headaches
[16:39.880 --> 16:47.800]  for developers um a lot of headaches for developers which just uh you know led us to to change this
[16:47.800 --> 16:55.720]  and drop drop this uh drop this from our support um so nowadays
[17:06.440 --> 17:14.280]  so actually what this uh file what this file determines is or it sets like it sets your
[17:14.280 --> 17:21.080]  chost abi um your compilation flags so things that are necessary for your compiler to be able to
[17:22.040 --> 17:26.040]  you know correctly compile packages for your architecture and abi you are using
[17:30.680 --> 17:36.600]  well this is the the old profile 17.0 well this is the latest one 20.0 i'm not sure about the naming
[17:36.600 --> 17:43.320]  maybe it's 17.0 maybe it's related to the year that these profiles were were made because i know
[17:43.320 --> 17:48.520]  that we're going to have a 23.0 profiles so probably it's related with the year that they
[17:48.520 --> 17:53.880]  they're written but um so these are the this is what we had before when i was talking about the
[17:53.880 --> 18:03.000]  old profiles so we had a lp64 live there was lib64 slash lp64d so we tried to have both of these
[18:03.000 --> 18:10.120]  abis coexist at the same time but um it proved to be just a little too too difficult to maintain
[18:11.000 --> 18:15.160]  i think we're still we're still building stages with with this configuration but it's not
[18:16.120 --> 18:21.000]  i'm not really tested or supported so you can try it out but probably going to run into some issues
[18:27.480 --> 18:33.960]  what everything except gcc and glc built properly and it's a little bit different
[18:34.120 --> 18:41.240]  yeah yeah by the way this is Andres so i was talking about him he's the he's the main guy behind
[18:41.240 --> 18:48.360]  the risk five port in gen 2 yeah feel free to if i do something you miss feel free to interrupt me
[18:48.360 --> 19:00.200]  and add something thank you all right so repository so the main repository contains about 19 000
[19:00.200 --> 19:06.680]  packages we said we we support risk five around 8 000 which doesn't mean that the other 11 000 don't
[19:06.680 --> 19:11.880]  build it just means that they're not you know officially tested because we try to minimize the
[19:11.880 --> 19:16.680]  number of packages we just because it creates additional burden for developers we have to
[19:16.680 --> 19:21.240]  maintain constantly these you know packages as soon as you know if there's a new version of
[19:21.240 --> 19:26.040]  package which pulls in different dependencies we have to you know also test you know many many
[19:26.040 --> 19:31.960]  dependencies which can create like a huge amount of work so that's why we try to let's say minimize
[19:32.680 --> 19:39.560]  for now the amount of packages we are supporting we also have a risk five overlay which is just
[19:41.400 --> 19:46.680]  let's say it's less official repository or more experimental which contains just
[19:47.240 --> 19:52.840]  some packages that are not yet ready to be in the main tree or just our working progress
[19:52.840 --> 19:57.560]  porting upstream like valgrind qt web engine thunderbird and so on
[20:03.240 --> 20:09.560]  we also have something well unofficial binary repository that is based on calculate linux so
[20:09.560 --> 20:16.520]  calculate is a it's a gen 2 base distribution is designed to be backwards compatible with
[20:17.160 --> 20:22.520]  with gen 2 and with portage so essentially it offers you just the repositories of binary packages
[20:22.520 --> 20:27.720]  which you can well you'll skip you'll skip the longest part of installing gen 2
[20:29.640 --> 20:36.840]  so we have unofficial repository for rix five packages and there's also an image for sci-fi
[20:36.840 --> 20:45.560]  one matched board the last one I think was in May last year so it's not official but if you know
[20:45.560 --> 20:50.520]  if you're interested in using this or if you need a if you need a newer build or something you can
[20:50.520 --> 20:54.600]  just let us know it will be we'll try to do our best to update or whatever so
[20:56.840 --> 20:58.840]  yeah
[21:02.440 --> 21:06.440]  now what is there to be done in the future so we said that we currently support risk five as
[21:06.440 --> 21:11.480]  a unstable architecture we'd like to support it as a stable architecture but we'll see
[21:11.880 --> 21:17.160]  it depends mostly of if there will be powerful enough hardware I mean there will be at some point
[21:17.160 --> 21:21.880]  we just we're going to have to wait for more powerful hardware to you know to be available to us
[21:24.120 --> 21:28.680]  we've also thought about providing bootable images so far we do not have official bootable images
[21:28.680 --> 21:33.640]  we just have this minimal set of like stage three which you use to install your
[21:35.480 --> 21:38.920]  your distribution but if you need or if you would like to have some if you're using gen
[21:38.920 --> 21:43.960]  two and risk five if you want to have something like this done you can you know feel free to let
[21:43.960 --> 21:49.240]  us know or just your comments and thoughts what you want to have what you would like to have
[21:49.240 --> 21:54.520]  implemented and we'll try to do it risk 532 support so it's
[21:58.360 --> 22:04.520]  well risk 532 not really across linux distributions not really supported maybe debian has something but
[22:05.240 --> 22:13.720]  maybe more mostly usable for right now for booting in qamu but actually it took it took a bit of a
[22:13.720 --> 22:20.440]  time to for upstream two components to gain support for risk five so for example glibc
[22:20.440 --> 22:28.520]  gained support for 32b risk five in around 2021 but I believe nowadays distributions are you know
[22:28.520 --> 22:34.440]  busy with other problems and probably adding support for risk five and the distribution
[22:34.440 --> 22:42.120]  is not on their high priority and speaking of 32 bit systems there's an interesting topic
[22:43.160 --> 22:51.720]  theme going around now it's the infamous year 2038 problem in across 32 bit systems so there's
[22:51.720 --> 22:56.520]  going to be there's going to be actually talk about this today at distributions their room
[22:57.080 --> 23:04.040]  to 3 p.m. so anybody who's interested yet you can come and check out I think one developer from
[23:04.040 --> 23:09.720]  debian is going to present it's supposed to be like a discussion session between distribution
[23:09.720 --> 23:15.720]  developers to see how this is yeah how this should be so our team in gen 2 has been toolchain team
[23:15.720 --> 23:22.840]  has been working hard to you know to develop the best solution for this so yeah we'll see
[23:22.840 --> 23:28.680]  we'll see what other distributions have and how we can how we can maybe work together to to fix this
[23:29.560 --> 23:32.040]  painlessly let's say or in the least painful way
[23:36.200 --> 23:41.240]  what are the supported platforms or what where can you run gen 2 if you're using risk five so
[23:42.360 --> 23:50.440]  I've mentioned just few boards here probably the most you most mostly familiar with sci-fi
[23:50.440 --> 23:57.480]  boards sci-fi line matches maybe the most commonly used so far but I believe both of these sci-fi
[23:57.480 --> 24:01.800]  boards have been discontinued but from what I've read a couple of weeks ago they announced
[24:02.920 --> 24:06.120]  they announced a new board which should be should be released this summer so yeah
[24:08.280 --> 24:11.000]  we're going to be excited to try gen 2 on that board when it comes out
[24:11.240 --> 24:22.600]  what do you think is the future are there any new asics coming up that are more
[24:22.600 --> 24:29.240]  performant and on par with say yeah well yeah I've heard that there there have been some
[24:29.240 --> 24:36.280]  companies in China that are developing for more like a server grade equipment so I believe there's
[24:36.280 --> 24:40.360]  also a risk five laptop that's supposed to come sometime maybe this year but
[24:43.480 --> 24:46.840]  yeah we'll see I mean I have hopes that we're going to have a powerful hardware yeah it's just
[24:46.840 --> 24:51.000]  matter of time I think at this point but maybe the problem will be when it comes out probably
[24:51.000 --> 24:56.360]  is going to be a bit pricier so I've read some information a lot like about these laptops is
[24:56.360 --> 25:02.200]  going to be priced around $1500 or something so maybe not the most accessible for you know your
[25:03.080 --> 25:07.960]  regular Linux users but I believe yeah as the market develops we should have
[25:10.200 --> 25:15.880]  we should have these boards priced more reasonably or more accessible to broader audience
[25:19.160 --> 25:25.960]  so now we talked about supporting gen 2 we can we can see what other distributions
[25:26.200 --> 25:34.440]  have done in the past few years so Debian right now offers a yeah offers a full support for risk
[25:34.440 --> 25:45.160]  fire architecture really really good fascinating fascinating thing is that Debian actually supports
[25:45.160 --> 25:50.920]  yeah 95 almost 100% of packages are you're able to to install on risk five using Debian
[25:51.480 --> 25:58.760]  so as most other distributions they are targeting rv64 gc instruction set
[26:00.440 --> 26:05.480]  I believe they offer few images bootable images for some of the boards I mentioned here
[26:07.080 --> 26:14.360]  there was also a very good talk four years ago at Fosdam by Karsten Merker he his topic
[26:14.360 --> 26:19.720]  was named porting Debian to risk five and it's really a great great talk which tells the story
[26:19.720 --> 26:26.680]  about how what it actually takes to port one distribution or to add support for one architecture
[26:26.680 --> 26:33.800]  across you know Linux different toolchain components gcc glibc and so on and then ported to actual
[26:33.800 --> 26:39.560]  architecture so anybody who wants to know more I highly recommend you to check out check out his talk
[26:42.760 --> 26:48.280]  Fedora is also another another distribution that has extensive support for risk five so there have
[26:48.280 --> 26:55.960]  been numerous they had numerous bootstrap bootstrap phases I believe last one was in 2018 so
[26:55.960 --> 27:04.520]  they they officially support since 2018 they got a built a build a build a build
[27:09.800 --> 27:13.560]  they have a build system designed to you know produce images for risk five they
[27:13.560 --> 27:19.320]  they offer previewed images for virtual for booting in QEMU QEMU and then for your
[27:20.280 --> 27:29.880]  for physical targets there was also a talk in 2019 by David Abdu Rahmanov titled Fedora on risk five
[27:29.880 --> 27:37.160]  so yeah spoke about more in more details about how Fedora was bootstrapped how what it's doing
[27:37.160 --> 27:45.560]  right now to for support for supporting risk five well free bsd not actually Linux but it's still
[27:47.000 --> 27:52.200]  still good to mention because they well from what I've read there actually they released their first
[27:53.800 --> 27:57.560]  had their first let's say working port in January 2016 which is probably the first
[27:59.560 --> 28:05.960]  the first operating system that had you know bootable support for for risk five nowadays they offer
[28:07.160 --> 28:11.560]  they offer support for risk five as a two two architecturally support many either
[28:12.600 --> 28:15.080]  virtual targets or physical physical devices
[28:19.640 --> 28:26.840]  yeah open susan Ubuntu another another two distros which offer support for for risk five so see we
[28:26.840 --> 28:31.240]  have you know if you want to use Linux on risk five you really have a lot of choice
[28:31.240 --> 28:37.560]  depending on what what you want to do if you want to use ubuntu debby and gentoo fedora or something else
[28:41.080 --> 28:46.600]  desktop environments so I've just basically dumped a list of desktop environments that are
[28:46.600 --> 28:52.280]  all available on risk five by the way all of these are available on gentoo as well and you can also
[28:52.280 --> 28:59.800]  use them on risk five so whether you want whether it's GNOME KDE X FCE enlightenment whatever it's
[28:59.880 --> 29:11.800]  there for you to use some images of gentoo in action so yeah this is a gentoo system running
[29:13.080 --> 29:20.600]  with KDE desktop environment now we got also with oh this is GNOME yeah from what I see in picture
[29:20.600 --> 29:23.320]  GNOME enlightenment
[29:26.920 --> 29:30.120]  now speaking about other other mainstream applications
[29:31.640 --> 29:37.000]  well in the recent few years there has been really you know big progress in terms of porting these
[29:38.040 --> 29:43.640]  let's say widely used applications for risk five so I've just mentioned a few of these here firefox
[29:43.640 --> 29:50.920]  open gdk and so on LibreOffice was also also got support for risk five I believe a couple of months
[29:50.920 --> 29:59.480]  ago speaking of gentoo we I believe open gdk no js yes we do have with risk five support LibreOffice
[29:59.480 --> 30:04.840]  not yet because we are I believe there's gonna be we're waiting for next release when next release
[30:04.840 --> 30:09.080]  happens we're gonna we're gonna package including with the risk five support
[30:09.800 --> 30:18.120]  um so some projects that are still you know that are yet to be ported was actually quite difficult
[30:18.120 --> 30:22.760]  to find I was looking for some software that's still you know ongoing or you know work in progress
[30:22.760 --> 30:26.760]  it was difficult to find some because most of the stuff has already been ported but there are some
[30:27.800 --> 30:34.200]  some interesting projects left so like luajit, valgrind or mono I'm interestingly luajit and
[30:34.200 --> 30:42.680]  valgrind I believe they've also been covered and forced them maybe 2020 or 2019 so and their port
[30:42.680 --> 30:50.600]  is still ongoing so yeah sometimes it takes even a couple of years to to to port some some project
[30:50.600 --> 30:56.840]  to risk five so it's really a great success how risk five has been able to grow you know from
[30:56.840 --> 31:00.920]  in just a few years to to achieve the level of support that we have nowadays
[31:04.840 --> 31:10.760]  so that will be pretty much what I wanted to tell you I hope I've got you interested maybe in
[31:11.800 --> 31:16.200]  trying out gentle on risk five if you got any questions any suggestions that
[31:19.480 --> 31:23.560]  biggest challenges well biggest challenge is probably would be this working with these
[31:24.680 --> 31:29.320]  this multi-lib concept which we tried to which we tried to support for some time then we just
[31:30.040 --> 31:36.440]  as I explained didn't really work so we had to just drop this and focus on just supporting
[31:37.800 --> 31:43.000]  rv64 gc yeah this single avi which is what other distributions are also doing so we decided to do
[31:43.000 --> 31:52.200]  the same yeah what are your experiences with supporting GPUs on risk five some of them I believe
[31:52.280 --> 31:59.640]  have PCI express like the star 64 that the one 64 demo did you get any 3d acceleration to work
[31:59.640 --> 32:05.080]  in combination with the risk with any risk five platform already well I'm not sure I haven't tried
[32:05.080 --> 32:11.240]  actually don't have a physical device with PCI or with the graphics card at home so I
[32:12.600 --> 32:18.200]  yeah I haven't tried myself but yeah if you want I can let you know yeah give me a content
[32:18.680 --> 32:20.200]  yeah I have
[32:36.200 --> 32:39.800]  what doesn't work is anything there the navy so they've gone to you
[32:48.200 --> 32:50.200]  write that patch
[32:52.440 --> 32:58.280]  mode okay I think someone hacked it it's important for both the video on the reddit or youtube
[32:59.800 --> 33:04.760]  but I don't think there is the missing patch on the kernel main limit and what
[33:04.760 --> 33:10.600]  so she's uh are those that work with it or is it just one so she that works or is it multiple
[33:11.000 --> 33:13.000]  I don't know
[33:19.880 --> 33:23.000]  yeah that was the question in the back
[33:41.240 --> 33:43.000]  yeah okay
[33:47.240 --> 33:51.080]  there are some of these really there yeah why do you think it's worth
[33:51.080 --> 33:57.560]  supporting I am seeing because it doesn't it doesn't necessarily support memory protections so it's
[33:58.280 --> 34:06.520]  essentially I'm completely on top of the charge which one I am risk 5 64 I am seeing
[34:06.840 --> 34:09.480]  mostly I believe we mostly targeted to support this for
[34:11.480 --> 34:16.200]  mostly for you know experimentation like booting in a virtual machine but now we
[34:17.560 --> 34:19.720]  focus more on focus more on GC
[34:36.840 --> 34:44.040]  um yeah I've mentioned I've left some notes here like there's a there's our project page
[34:45.800 --> 34:52.520]  and gen 2 wiki pages you also have a my email or risk 5 project email so if you need anything
[34:52.520 --> 34:57.080]  you can just let us know if you want something something done you need a package or whatever
[34:57.640 --> 35:00.360]  do you need help do you have a call for action
[35:01.000 --> 35:06.520]  uh well yeah we always need we always need help to you know fight with various and not
[35:06.520 --> 35:10.280]  not only the risk 5 but in general to fight with various build issues you know patching
[35:10.280 --> 35:15.080]  upstreaming upstreaming patches writing documentation yeah I mentioned some stuff like
[35:16.520 --> 35:22.200]  bootable images so yeah we also we're always welcome to you know help if anybody's interested
[35:22.200 --> 35:27.240]  in contributing to either risk 5 or in general gen 2 you can just let us know and we'll be able
[35:27.880 --> 35:34.120]  do our best to you know help you to try to you know experience what it is to be able to contribute
[35:35.640 --> 35:37.640]  actively to
[35:45.640 --> 35:47.640]  ah yeah that one as well
[35:57.240 --> 35:59.240]  hangs
[36:08.760 --> 36:13.640]  you know we did recently found another futex issue in rb32
[36:15.800 --> 36:21.240]  it may it may it may be connected to the bottom of it soon so 72 is still broken so yeah it's
[36:21.240 --> 36:24.760]  still everything's still rugged right now just don't know how to fix it
[36:28.200 --> 36:31.240]  yeah help is always welcome on all fronts yeah
[36:33.480 --> 36:38.120]  anybody in the room actually I know there is in the arm space there are two projects I forgot
[36:38.120 --> 36:44.520]  the name that are really working on optimized x86 emulation which is achieved quite impressive
[36:44.520 --> 36:50.840]  as results you can actually play some recent games on 64 arm and those project don't seem to
[36:51.480 --> 36:56.840]  show any interest in reporting this to risk 5 because a lot of would have to be done at a low
[36:56.840 --> 37:02.600]  level I was wondering is there any similar project ongoing right now to have like a high
[37:02.600 --> 37:09.160]  performance x68 x86 emulation on top of risk 5 going on because as we actually migrate to the
[37:09.160 --> 37:14.920]  architecture might be that would be a compelling I think maybe that has to wait when we have high
[37:14.920 --> 37:21.720]  performance risk 5 processes yeah we want to start early right yeah there is a higher dependency
[37:22.360 --> 37:29.480]  because the memory model in risk 5 is weaker in order to emulate x86 we need this PSO extension
[37:32.040 --> 37:34.760]  it's the same thing that apple implemented in their work right
[37:39.720 --> 37:42.040]  for risk 5 we're emulating x86 we need this
[37:42.360 --> 37:48.360]  well then I believe that that is working on that we have this extension
[37:49.080 --> 37:54.920]  so once we have the hardware that is capable of emulating the memory model of x86 I guess it
[37:54.920 --> 38:02.280]  will start out a little bit easier and do you know if that will be an official extension or just
[38:02.280 --> 38:04.280]  appropriate
[38:13.880 --> 38:14.280]  thank you
[38:17.800 --> 38:19.320]  I believe we have maybe one more minute
[38:21.240 --> 38:21.720]  thank you
[38:32.280 --> 38:33.660]  you