[00:00.000 --> 00:16.000]  shortly about us so I'm there on the left so we are site our energy flexibility
[00:16.000 --> 00:23.920]  software startup who decided to go the open source way two years ago and this
[00:23.920 --> 00:27.960]  project we're working together with positive design small company in the
[00:27.960 --> 00:34.680]  Netherlands as well they are more working on the UX part of this so something
[00:34.680 --> 00:38.120]  where I really know a lot about are these two projects because we are
[00:38.120 --> 00:43.640]  building flex measures project we denote donated to the Linux Energy
[00:43.640 --> 00:51.240]  Foundation before you leave the room get some swag over there and together we
[00:51.240 --> 00:56.840]  built this V2G Liberty project which actually is works as an umbrella for the
[00:56.840 --> 01:02.240]  rest so vehicle to grid some of you might know roughly what it is it has
[01:02.240 --> 01:08.280]  been a buzzword going around it basically means other than most of the car
[01:08.280 --> 01:12.760]  charging that's going on today just power into the car you could actually get
[01:12.760 --> 01:18.200]  power out of the car for instance back onto the grid here I listed some use
[01:18.200 --> 01:25.480]  cases why that is supposedly a good idea and specifically the the third one
[01:25.480 --> 01:29.560]  that might be pretty interesting because in a scenario where you have a
[01:29.560 --> 01:38.200]  varying energy price now your car could be a trader right and actually the
[01:38.200 --> 01:44.240]  spreads in the energy markets are increasing by a lot these days it makes
[01:44.240 --> 01:50.080]  it suddenly interesting and when I look at industry coming up with vehicle to
[01:50.080 --> 01:57.920]  grid by themselves people observe a lot of delays and I from my perspective it
[01:57.920 --> 02:02.760]  seems that the the the actual industry players closed source players are looking
[02:02.760 --> 02:07.120]  to actually deliver an ecosystem right so these are pictures you're getting from
[02:07.120 --> 02:11.560]  the big names Hyundai Volkswagen Tesla they're always thinking about putting
[02:11.560 --> 02:17.640]  multiple things in your home basically taking it over and that takes longer and
[02:17.640 --> 02:25.080]  so something I'm not looking forward to that's why we decided to do this project
[02:25.080 --> 02:31.040]  it's more than a year ago now so we have more than a year of data from one
[02:31.040 --> 02:35.880]  location and recently we've attracted some other enthusiasts and there's five
[02:35.880 --> 02:42.920]  more locations where this is being employed in reality and quickly about
[02:42.920 --> 02:46.600]  the motivation so why should we do that is this something that I want to you know
[02:46.600 --> 02:53.000]  sell it was site energy flexibility and focus on that completely actually probably
[02:53.000 --> 02:59.320]  not site energy flexibility in our flex measures project is about making the
[02:59.320 --> 03:04.400]  best use of energy flexibility in general but this is very cool to show
[03:04.400 --> 03:09.160]  that we can do something today we don't have to wait or there's open source
[03:09.160 --> 03:13.880]  projects if you put them together are super powerful and it was a great way
[03:13.880 --> 03:19.720]  to bootstrap ourselves to challenge our technology so I'll talk about the stack
[03:19.720 --> 03:25.080]  the design of what V2G Liberty looks like if you use it and some outlooks
[03:25.080 --> 03:32.480]  first what do you need in this context to actually get going you won't find a
[03:32.480 --> 03:36.960]  lot of cars you can use for this the Nissan Leaf is one of the only ones
[03:36.960 --> 03:42.600]  specifically in 2021 that could do vehicle to grid same goes for the
[03:42.600 --> 03:48.920]  charger so this is a charger from Spanish company wallbox of course they
[03:48.920 --> 03:55.360]  promised that open standards like OCPP will be very soon working and that
[03:55.360 --> 04:00.120]  hasn't happened yet so what was it is you need some kind of computer in your
[04:00.120 --> 04:06.720]  house this has been mentioned in talks this morning already and then we work
[04:06.720 --> 04:11.520]  with an energy contract with dynamic tariffs so in the Netherlands that you
[04:11.520 --> 04:15.040]  already have I think six or seven to choose from that's going very hard but
[04:15.040 --> 04:21.120]  the tipper for instance is launching in a couple European countries and offers
[04:21.120 --> 04:29.440]  you that so this is actually the software architecture in a nutshell I don't
[04:29.440 --> 04:35.400]  want to make it too difficult if you imagine you put this in your house what
[04:35.400 --> 04:42.480]  you need is to install home assistant so that's this logo here home assistant is
[04:42.480 --> 04:48.000]  a very stable home automation software and we've basically built V2G Liberty
[04:48.000 --> 04:53.840]  as a home assistant plug-in that's also actually fun to do it's it's it's nice
[04:53.840 --> 05:02.440]  and you get a lot of presence like UI widgets and things like that and then
[05:02.440 --> 05:08.680]  flex measures is actually not running in the house it could it's dockerized you
[05:08.680 --> 05:13.040]  could put it in the house next to your home automation software and I think a
[05:13.040 --> 05:19.360]  couple of these enthusiasts who now are using this are doing that but for such a
[05:19.360 --> 05:22.840]  software it's sometimes nicer to run in the cloud because it's more difficult to
[05:22.840 --> 05:31.560]  maintain flex measures itself is then responsible to get the relevant real-time
[05:31.560 --> 05:36.520]  data that's it's important to schedule the cars charging this charging so in
[05:36.520 --> 05:44.960]  this case the prices that the consumer contract is on we could also get I think
[05:44.960 --> 05:49.440]  we actually do in a new version it's not listed here we also get some public
[05:49.440 --> 05:54.480]  data that helps us to look at the co2 levels of your car cost consumption so
[05:54.480 --> 06:01.760]  there will be another box right there and I talked about this connection right
[06:01.760 --> 06:07.000]  so we have to somehow talk to the wallbox and we found out for now this
[06:07.000 --> 06:12.560]  has to be modbus and we found out to how this response and we talked to the
[06:12.560 --> 06:17.760]  company the wallbox company if we're allowed to put our code in a public
[06:17.760 --> 06:22.600]  repository if you could see in the code which registers their hardware reacts to
[06:22.600 --> 06:29.200]  but I think yeah we've sorted it out that was a bit difficult and basically
[06:29.200 --> 06:35.440]  what we have to do is simply say start or stop the charge or discharging and we
[06:35.440 --> 06:40.960]  are able to read the state of charge of the battery and on the left side are
[06:40.960 --> 06:48.520]  some more nicer UX features so you want to put along for a longer ride you want
[06:48.520 --> 06:53.080]  to tell our system that the car needs to be full and maybe you want some
[06:53.080 --> 06:59.720]  overrides I'll come to those later so first about the components I I mentioned
[06:59.720 --> 07:06.200]  home assistant it has been around for a while now I think it has also some
[07:06.200 --> 07:13.200]  origins in the Netherlands but it's also developed in California now actually
[07:13.200 --> 07:19.240]  we had a couple of the home assistant people over in a demo because these
[07:19.240 --> 07:25.600]  people here so that was nice to actually have that also in real life and as I
[07:25.600 --> 07:30.120]  said you can write plugins to really to do your own logic on top of a home
[07:30.120 --> 07:34.880]  assistant now thanks measures is the project that I spent the most time with
[07:34.880 --> 07:43.120]  our company develops that yeah basically it's a data driven platform to get the
[07:43.120 --> 07:51.160]  best timing for your flexible energy assets when should they be on or off so
[07:51.160 --> 07:56.160]  and what I'm talking to you today about is an immobility project but we've also
[07:56.160 --> 08:01.400]  having some commercial projects in industry the built environment and
[08:01.400 --> 08:08.120]  actually our goal our dream is that this all comes together so for example we're
[08:08.120 --> 08:13.080]  working on heating now the energy flexibility of heating and heating and
[08:13.080 --> 08:18.000]  immobility somehow happen right next to each other so that's where we want to
[08:18.000 --> 08:27.120]  go and flex measures itself has a UI and I'm just showcasing that here but in
[08:27.120 --> 08:30.560]  our project right now in this V2G Liberty project that wasn't really being
[08:30.560 --> 08:36.160]  used so what we want is for flex measures to be a back-end that you talk to
[08:36.160 --> 08:42.000]  through APIs and you built your you usually built your own user interfacing
[08:42.000 --> 08:47.000]  flexible service or you integrate what flex measures helps you with into your
[08:47.000 --> 08:53.920]  existing service well that's actually what we did with V2G Liberty so that's
[08:53.920 --> 09:00.880]  actually a kind of typical home assistant look for your dashboard I think we
[09:00.880 --> 09:08.120]  have the goal to bring our own style into that when we have the help but that's
[09:08.120 --> 09:12.920]  what you get and yeah usually you can see what your car is doing what's the
[09:12.920 --> 09:18.080]  charging power right now what's the state of charge and then we come into the
[09:18.080 --> 09:25.840]  more interesting or self-built features I will talk about this in another slide
[09:25.840 --> 09:31.480]  but this basically shows you the state of charge that happened in blue and what
[09:31.480 --> 09:37.000]  flex measures has advised to happen with that in the upcoming hours and the
[09:37.000 --> 09:43.040]  energy price and here you have you have the ability as a user to simply say I
[09:43.040 --> 09:51.640]  don't want this stop the automation or just charge the car right now I don't
[09:51.640 --> 10:00.200]  care about the optimal result here you see if you've reserved the car and that's
[10:00.200 --> 10:06.880]  where our partner positive design came in to really think with us well it
[10:06.880 --> 10:12.160]  if we get to design a V2G application what do we want to experience when we
[10:12.160 --> 10:19.200]  use it and these are the goals it should basically you want to be happy that
[10:19.200 --> 10:23.600]  it's there for a few weeks but then you want to stop thinking about it every
[10:23.600 --> 10:29.880]  day it should just happen and you might look at your end result and be happy it
[10:29.880 --> 10:35.280]  of course needs to be ready for you to do trips at least trips let's say
[10:35.280 --> 10:41.160]  groceries hospital go to a nearby town which in the Netherlands of course is
[10:41.160 --> 10:47.880]  quite easy so Utrecht Amsterdam for instance works with 20 percent of
[10:47.880 --> 10:56.280]  charge yeah and CO2 saving and cost saving of course other the goals you
[10:56.280 --> 11:04.400]  can really put numbers on yeah let's let's go one level deeper in the detail
[11:04.400 --> 11:09.320]  here I'm not sure it was all clear I always said the state of charge history
[11:09.320 --> 11:14.360]  will be shown to you in blue and then it's shown to you what the planning
[11:14.360 --> 11:20.960]  would be so here you can see a bit if you look at the price in gray that in
[11:20.960 --> 11:24.920]  the future you will charge your battery because the price is low and you will
[11:24.920 --> 11:29.600]  discharge because there's a higher price later and you do that twice actually in
[11:29.600 --> 11:36.760]  that in that day and the new feature as I said earlier is that we also plotting
[11:36.760 --> 11:44.360]  the CO2 intensity on the grid that's going to happen in those hours that's
[11:44.360 --> 11:51.680]  something we are basing on the scheduled coal and gas power for the
[11:51.680 --> 11:55.800]  upcoming days of course there's also professional services for that somebody
[11:55.800 --> 12:00.880]  in an earlier talk mentioned electricity map I think that's in the
[12:00.880 --> 12:06.960]  capital tool that's a third-party integration for cost reasons we
[12:06.960 --> 12:13.440]  basically developed our own version of that and what's interesting of course
[12:13.440 --> 12:19.960]  as you see there's a slight correlation and we actually have a plot
[12:19.960 --> 12:24.440]  somewhere where we looked at the whole here from our data and checked so is
[12:24.440 --> 12:30.080]  low carbon intensity does that kind of correlate to lower prices because in
[12:30.080 --> 12:35.040]  that moment you have a lot of sun and wind on the grid which have zero marginal
[12:35.040 --> 12:41.520]  cost so that can happen and in the day ahead prices of course that's there's
[12:41.520 --> 12:47.240]  an economics that makes that complex but it does actually happen during the day
[12:47.240 --> 12:57.240]  during the day you see a correlation in the night not yet so here's one or two
[12:57.240 --> 13:01.960]  features of this application in V2G Liberty for instance you come home
[13:01.960 --> 13:11.360]  from some trip you connect the car V2G Liberty talks to the charger and asks
[13:11.360 --> 13:14.200]  so what's the deal with the car right now what is the state of charge it comes
[13:14.200 --> 13:20.520]  back as below 20% and then there's only one cause of action we have to get up
[13:20.520 --> 13:30.560]  back to those 20% so that's just a simple fallback that gets you to 60 to 80
[13:30.560 --> 13:36.760]  kilometers and and when you've outlived your range anxiety that should be okay
[13:36.760 --> 13:44.120]  and that other feature I've shown in the UI before as well you can go to
[13:44.120 --> 13:48.520]  your calendar on your phone and that's where NextCloud comes in here now I
[13:48.520 --> 13:53.560]  I'm a personal on also the company where NextCloud users and that's why I was so
[13:53.560 --> 13:58.560]  happy to bring NextCloud in this as well but it's basically just used for the
[13:58.560 --> 14:03.560]  agenda integration you can use Google Calendar if you need to that's no problem
[14:03.560 --> 14:09.880]  so you make your own agenda for your car and you create an entry in the agenda
[14:09.880 --> 14:13.600]  for your car that you're going on a longer on a road trip let's say tomorrow
[14:13.600 --> 14:20.320]  at 8 o'clock and that will be picked up by V2G Liberty and what's nice here you
[14:20.320 --> 14:25.280]  see here the mobile view I showed the desktop view before but Home Assistant
[14:25.280 --> 14:31.200]  even gives you something that looks really well on your mobile mobile app
[14:31.200 --> 14:39.720]  which is this is basically the same widgets just rearranged so then this
[14:39.720 --> 14:44.640]  will show up home V2G Liberty will know about that reservation will contact
[14:44.640 --> 14:48.600]  flex measures automatically flex measures will realize oh there's a new
[14:48.600 --> 14:53.080]  constraint coming in I need to recompute everything and that will change so here
[14:53.080 --> 14:59.720]  you see state of charge will go up to a hundred try trying to avoid that price
[14:59.720 --> 15:04.960]  peak there in the middle do it cost efficiently
[15:04.960 --> 15:15.280]  all right so where are we now this project so it's working nice first thing
[15:15.280 --> 15:20.360]  that comes to mind now that we're the other enthusiasts being on board that the
[15:20.360 --> 15:25.960]  installation effort still a bit high you you know we have written it all out on
[15:25.960 --> 15:33.520]  that V2G Liberty GitHub read me but as a couple steps you need to install your
[15:33.520 --> 15:37.000]  Home Assistant and make that plug-in work so there we can have some low-hanging
[15:37.000 --> 15:40.960]  fruits in Home Assistant you can basically have an actual plug-in that
[15:40.960 --> 15:45.880]  is downloadable and updates itself and all that you do have configurations to
[15:45.880 --> 15:52.960]  make in a file that could be a wizard this there's some stuff there it really
[15:52.960 --> 15:56.640]  helps us also with flex measures to see if it runs in the background like what
[15:56.640 --> 16:01.880]  kind of monitoring do we need it's really helpful some people are installing
[16:01.880 --> 16:06.560]  flex measures themselves as well so that's really and you really a techie
[16:06.560 --> 16:14.600]  enthusiast I will briefly go into some earnings or
[16:14.600 --> 16:19.520]  economical results so here's some hints that you know sometimes you have a day
[16:19.520 --> 16:25.720]  where there's there was huge sprite price spreads and your car basically set at
[16:25.720 --> 16:30.640]  home the whole day and then you can really have a great day with earnings
[16:30.640 --> 16:37.120]  above the 10 euros in the Netherlands good to keep in mind energy flexibility
[16:37.120 --> 16:45.440]  is only usable if your asset is there and you're not using it so if you take
[16:45.440 --> 16:51.320]  your car for long rides every day well there's less time to do something with
[16:51.320 --> 17:00.320]  it and then you have less earnings excuse me so actually this user is making a
[17:00.320 --> 17:08.720]  lot of kilometers actually and so here's a report from I think this is ten
[17:08.720 --> 17:16.280]  months of data and this is an overview we will see how much has been charged and
[17:16.280 --> 17:22.880]  discharged right so this is actually large parts of these of these kilowatt
[17:22.880 --> 17:29.760]  hours have actually been charged just to save them and give them back to the
[17:29.760 --> 17:39.480]  grid at a better time this is what where a lot of policymakers put high hopes
[17:39.480 --> 17:46.680]  on of course that cars will work as batteries so that the grid can use and
[17:46.680 --> 17:53.160]  carry energy at the best times well there's a big axle spreadsheet behind
[17:53.160 --> 17:59.560]  this but if you just look at the the bottom line that you would see they
[17:59.560 --> 18:05.520]  have driven their car for 3,000 kilowatt hours and paid 200 euros for that
[18:05.520 --> 18:12.000]  it's a pretty good price and you could compare with scenarios so what if what
[18:12.000 --> 18:18.760]  if I had just a fixed cost contract from a year ago would you wouldn't get that
[18:18.760 --> 18:24.480]  today you can you arrive at some price as you all know this changes these
[18:24.480 --> 18:28.840]  numbers they change so fast these days and you got before the Ukraine crisis
[18:28.840 --> 18:35.040]  already lots of movement in the markets after that more so this is this is
[18:35.040 --> 18:40.760]  difficult I think to make these look at these as hard facts like how many euros
[18:40.760 --> 18:48.560]  will I save if I install this in 2023 or 2024 I will not subscribe on the number
[18:48.560 --> 18:52.120]  there but their savings and there's some other people making these calculations
[18:52.120 --> 18:56.520]  also on a more higher level but it's nice to have an actual project you know
[18:56.520 --> 19:01.880]  this has really happened and we can dive deeper into the data so if anybody's
[19:01.880 --> 19:09.280]  interested let us know and of course another one a part of the cost is that
[19:09.280 --> 19:15.040]  the V2G capable chargers are currently much more expensive but I think the
[19:15.040 --> 19:23.160]  difference is coming down soon right so what we will do the installation I
[19:23.160 --> 19:31.240]  already mentioned updating V2G Liberty if you have it running and we have a
[19:31.240 --> 19:39.000]  new version that that can be easier we want to actually show you KPIs you know
[19:39.000 --> 19:46.800]  what did I save in money or CO2 let's say last month I think per day can also
[19:46.800 --> 19:54.480]  work now we have more users enthusiasts who install it at home and we run it so
[19:54.480 --> 19:58.440]  will the learning curve is going up right now in a sense of how much
[19:58.440 --> 20:03.720]  information we get that's great and there's it's going to be an interesting
[20:03.720 --> 20:11.800]  year with more things to support I'm not sure what kind of things this project
[20:11.800 --> 20:21.080]  should support the V2G Liberty project it potentially has to do with demand from
[20:21.080 --> 20:26.640]  the community but of course if you if chargers actually support OCPP then
[20:26.640 --> 20:32.040]  that's just a great idea and on the flex measure side so that's something I
[20:32.040 --> 20:40.680]  also know the the near future a bit I already mentioned that we are tackling
[20:40.680 --> 20:46.320]  immobility in projects like this but also heat in other projects and we look
[20:46.320 --> 20:51.480]  at the build environment this has to come together so our our big next
[20:51.480 --> 20:58.920]  challenge is to really model the energy flexibility from these two usages of
[20:58.920 --> 21:05.000]  energy combined and and give one make one computation about a building or a
[21:05.000 --> 21:12.120]  site that uses heat and uses immobility as two big flexible power demands and
[21:12.120 --> 21:18.200]  and come up with one optimization and then actually automate that so that's
[21:18.200 --> 21:25.800]  that's our next big milestone and the other thing that's really important of
[21:25.800 --> 21:32.960]  course to mention is network congestion that's network operators are coming up
[21:32.960 --> 21:40.640]  with ideas how projects like this are flexible consumers can do their part so
[21:40.640 --> 21:45.240]  for instance can stop their demands in a specific moment and in a specific region
[21:45.240 --> 21:52.200]  which would help on the lower and medium parts of the grid and that's also for us
[21:52.200 --> 22:02.440]  really on the map this is almost at the end of course we need to hear
[22:02.440 --> 22:07.600]  questions but of course to for people to get in contact and I'm just listening
[22:07.600 --> 22:12.920]  to the best contact points for each of the projects for V2G liberty that's
[22:12.920 --> 22:20.880]  just come to the GitHub project and interact there flex measures itself is
[22:20.880 --> 22:27.880]  has more channels that you can contact us on we listed them here in the in the
[22:27.880 --> 22:35.720]  read the docs for instance through LF energy their ways I do have I think I
[22:35.720 --> 22:42.120]  have two minutes so one thing I have on the very last slide before I close is
[22:42.120 --> 22:46.960]  something we build in flex measures recently because if you talk about
[22:46.960 --> 22:51.160]  projects like these basically after they happen and you just summarizing what
[22:51.160 --> 22:55.840]  happened they don't really come alive because what actually happens and what
[22:55.840 --> 23:01.840]  we do is that throughout the day new situations arise all the time you know
[23:01.840 --> 23:07.040]  new circumstances like the car comes back it has a completely new state of
[23:07.040 --> 23:13.080]  charge could be lower maybe they charged on the way is higher you don't know this
[23:13.080 --> 23:21.480]  this is a new situation so we need to recompute and each of these situations
[23:21.480 --> 23:26.280]  you also need to have a different set of forecasts so you ask yourself it's this
[23:26.280 --> 23:33.080]  point in time I was asked to recompute and I look at the set of forecasts what
[23:33.080 --> 23:38.120]  do I know now about the state of things so maybe not all the devices have sent
[23:38.120 --> 23:43.720]  me everything yet there's always delays there's always lags in IOT applications
[23:43.720 --> 23:48.680]  in the future which forecast do I have now available and that's what I mean
[23:48.680 --> 23:57.440]  with it doesn't come alive right and we let's see if it works yeah we we made it
[23:57.440 --> 24:02.840]  we made a UI that uses JavaScript so you can travel through time basically so
[24:02.840 --> 24:08.520]  imagine that that bar is now you hit that button and we have kept the old
[24:08.520 --> 24:12.560]  schedules we have kept everything that's all and we know when we knew it
[24:12.560 --> 24:18.160]  that's how we can travel through time and when we stop it anywhere we know
[24:18.160 --> 24:23.560]  what we knew at the time so let's say we knew the day ahead prices you can see
[24:23.560 --> 24:27.880]  the day head price on top coming in in batches for instance and then the new
[24:27.880 --> 24:37.760]  schedules that's a red dotted line also all right let me stop in time and there's
[24:37.760 --> 24:45.600]  any questions all right there's a few but who decides on the order well let's
[24:45.600 --> 25:04.200]  just start my left I think that V2d liberty oh yeah sure the question was
[25:04.200 --> 25:11.000]  if this has been built for one car or if there's the opportunity to have multiple
[25:11.000 --> 25:18.720]  cars at the same location on the charging station supported and V2d liberty
[25:18.720 --> 25:24.440]  has right now been built for one household with one car which is expandable
[25:24.440 --> 25:30.800]  in principle through some work and flex measures itself has a solver that could
[25:30.800 --> 25:48.480]  also schedule multiple cars so that's not a technical problem on that side
[26:00.800 --> 26:27.960]  so the question is that for the day head prices the energy suppliers make a
[26:27.960 --> 26:34.160]  forecast usually or traditionally what all the consumers will consume aggregated
[26:34.160 --> 26:38.200]  over thousands of consumers they get a nice curve and they try to buy that now
[26:38.200 --> 26:43.080]  if the consumers react to that price you have a loop somehow a dynamics more
[26:43.080 --> 26:50.200]  dynamic system and the question was if I have thought about it yes of course it's
[26:50.200 --> 26:54.520]  super interesting there's two thoughts one is that there's now a couple of
[26:54.520 --> 26:59.840]  providers like that in the Netherlands and I think they basically adjust for
[26:59.840 --> 27:06.760]  that they would assume that a bunch of their customers do act flexible and
[27:06.760 --> 27:11.000]  they might have have to add a model for that a behavioral model economics
[27:11.000 --> 27:17.520]  economics behavioral and try to get it right on the other hand I think that some
[27:17.520 --> 27:22.720]  there's going to be more energy suppliers because I know of a company
[27:22.720 --> 27:27.400]  in the Netherlands that is basically helping larger companies become an
[27:27.400 --> 27:31.840]  energy supplier so they don't if it's basically energy supply as a service so
[27:31.840 --> 27:37.280]  you can brand your own energy supply contract and some of organizations I've
[27:37.280 --> 27:43.560]  talked to think about adjusting their their price signal themselves so they
[27:43.560 --> 27:47.200]  buy something on the day head market but that's not the price they give to you
[27:47.200 --> 27:53.160]  they give you a different profile to try to sort that out
[28:03.600 --> 28:08.840]  yeah could be could be that you're not doing as much money on the market but
[28:08.840 --> 28:35.200]  now you add services I was talking about hardware so can you repeat the
[28:35.200 --> 28:53.440]  question do you mean the Everest project yes well we are both in Linux
[28:53.440 --> 28:59.320]  energy foundation so we know about each other so that would be a way out the
[28:59.320 --> 29:09.440]  question right it's everything's super new and the question was for the
[29:09.440 --> 29:15.320]  audience online that there's the Everest project and they also have open source
[29:15.320 --> 29:20.200]  hardware although that's not there the core of the the company but they offer
[29:20.200 --> 29:24.480]  that and they had a great talk this morning so that could help of course so
[29:24.480 --> 29:29.040]  that's it's a great opportunity for the community for anybody maybe for us to
[29:29.040 --> 29:35.800]  combine these two I don't know but especially young companies have to
[29:35.800 --> 29:45.280]  sprint it's difficult I want to also get some part of the we are fine I'll be
[29:45.280 --> 29:48.880]  answering questions in the chat if there's something burning or right now in
[29:48.880 --> 30:01.000]  person afterwards in the break thank you